Question about creating an Artificer above 1st level

[reveal]

So for a theoretical character that's played in your campaign from 1 to 10 who has crafted all the gear that he owns, is the value of his gear 49k or 98k ? If its 98k as one would expect, then why wouldn't a character starting at 10 be able to achieve the same amount, assuming he spent the xp required ? (Altho arguably this would result in him being 9th level and thus only having 72k worth of items.. nevermind that for now).

Of course if its only 49k, and you don't let your characters achieve more than standard wealth for their level... whats the point of the feats again? And why are they spending all that xp ?

Not looking for questions related to my competency as a DM. Looking for possible answers to my problem.

And my PCs do own more than 49k worth of gear. I just use the wealth guidelines for new characters to keep it simple.

 

[Jdvn1]

And my PCs do own more than 49k worth of gear. I just use the wealth guidelines for new characters to keep it simple.

In that case, just raise the starting gold and let her choose what she wants.

 

[Diirk]

Not looking for questions related to my competency as a DM. Looking for possible answers to my problem.

And my PCs do own more than 49k worth of gear. I just use the wealth guidelines for new characters to keep it simple.

Er sorry, I was directing that towards Jdvn's post about not allowing the usage of craft feats for newly made characters (other than as flavour), not anything you posted.

For your problem, the character wealth guidelines already assume that characters buy stuff over a spread of levels, so I'd just give the artificer say, 1/2-3/4ish of the total of their craft pools up til now to reflect that.

 

[apesamongus]

Isn't there a rule somewhere that lets 1st level wizards buy scrolls that they could make for 1/2 gold at the start of the game - completely ignoring the XP cost?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Isn't there a rule somewhere that lets 1st level wizards buy scrolls that they could make for 1/2 gold at the start of the game - completely ignoring the XP cost?

That's the rule (sorta) for NPCs. They are allowed to "purchase" any item for which they have the appropriate craft feat at 75% of the market price.

PCs, however, are created using a different method: Here's X GP and Y XP. Spend them however you wish.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I don't see how it's reaming someone to give him the amount of wealth he's supposed to start with.

Perhaps because they've taken a character class that says "you get extra treasure" as one of it's main abilities. And you're saying "nope, you don't get that".

Effectively the artificer should have gained, by 10th level, 56,000gp worth of crafted items as part of their class abilities.

Would you deny a new high level wizard his starting spells and 2 free spells per level? I didn't think so. Why are you so squeamish about denying him a mere 16250gp (assuming everyone lets him copy for free) compared with the 56,000 you deny the new artificer?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Not looking for questions related to my competency as a DM. Looking for possible answers to my problem.

I believe that comment was directed at Jdvn's poor treatment of classes and characters who create items.

As for how I would handle this ...

Here's a quick Excel sheet she can use when crafting her items.

It works thusly:

You're creating a 10th-level Artificer. Enter 10 into the Artificer Level field. The values calculate, and say that, over the course of her artificing career, she's accumulated a total of 1,600 Craft Reserve points.

Since she gets Scribe Scroll at level 1, she could conceivably have spent all 1,600 points on scrolls. Since she didn't get Craft Magical Arms and Armor until level 5, she could not have spent any points from levels 1-4 on A&A; accordingly, she can only spend a maximum of 1,400 points on A&A.

Let's say she wants to spend 100 points of her craft reserve on scrolls. Enter 100 in the Spent field next to "Scrolls." The spreadsheet assumes that you spend them in the most opportunistic way, so the first 20 points on scrolls come out of her 1st-level Craft Reserve. The next 40 come out of her 2nd-level Craft Reserve (affecting the maximum she can spend on potions) and the final 40 come out of her 3rd-level Craft Reserve (affecting the maximum she can spend on Wondrous Items.

Now, let's say she spends an additional 100 points on wands. Wands are available at 6th-level (check the Errata ). Therefore, she starts spending from her 6th-, 7th-, and 8th-level Craft Reserves. This flows back and reduces the total amount she can spend on scrolls, potions, and other lower-level items.

The Craft Reserve Remaining field tells you how much, of your current level's Craft Reserve, remains unspent. Unfortunately, it doesn't work quite yet. I'll keep hammering away on it.

Ignore any value less than 0.

I also don't have any idiot-proofing in this spreadsheet. I allow you to spend more than you actually can (for instance, there's nothing stopping you from entering 1,000 for Rods, even though, at 10th-level, you only 700 to spend on Rods).

I also force you to determine the XP cost of the items you want to craft on your own.

If you've got any questions, feel free to ask!

EDIT: OK - the current Craft Reserve calc is now working. It tells you how much of your last level's craft reserve is remaining, given the amount of XP you've laid out as spent.

Tada!

 

[Jdvn1]

Perhaps because they've taken a character class that says "you get extra treasure" as one of it's main abilities. And you're saying "nope, you don't get that".

Effectively the artificer should have gained, by 10th level, 56,000gp worth of crafted items as part of their class abilities.

Would you deny a new high level wizard his starting spells and 2 free spells per level? I didn't think so. Why are you so squeamish about denying him a mere 16250gp (assuming everyone lets him copy for free) compared with the 56,000 you deny the new artificer?

Your premise is flawed. The class doesn't say you get extra treasure, the class says you can make treasure for less of a cost. PC wealth is supposed to be constant.

A Wizard gets his two spells per level for free, and they don't add to PC wealth. If he wants more spells, he has to buy them and it comes out of his gold. Just like an Artificer has to buy his equipment.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Your premise is flawed. The class doesn't say you get extra treasure, the class says you can make treasure for less of a cost. PC wealth is supposed to be constant.

So you would remove treasure from a character who created an item in game? After all, PC wealth is supposed to be constant...

Does noone in your game get ANY benefit from craft feats? Wow. That sucks. No wonder the artificer isn't getting the benefit of his craft reserve.

In fact, in your game, I wonder that anyone takes craft feats...

A Wizard gets his two spells per level for free, and they don't add to PC wealth. If he wants more spells, he has to buy them and it comes out of his gold. Just like an Artificer has to buy his equipment.

I disagree. The spells that he places in his spellbook, whether he scribes them for free or not, are still worth 200gp per page should he decide to sell the spellbook. In fact, for a character with a boccob's spellbook, it's entirely possible for him to put his 2 free spells per level into his regular spellbook, then scribe them to the boccob's free of charge, then sell the regular spellbook for a significant profit.

You're saying that every self-researched spell somehow has a value of 0, despite functioning identically to the equivalent bought spell.

 

[Ferrix]

Your premise is flawed. The class doesn't say you get extra treasure, the class says you can make treasure for less of a cost. PC wealth is supposed to be constant.

A Wizard gets his two spells per level for free, and they don't add to PC wealth. If he wants more spells, he has to buy them and it comes out of his gold. Just like an Artificer has to buy his equipment.

However the artificer effectively "buys" equipment at a reduced cost since he is able to craft it himself. It doesn't say you get extra treasure, he still effectively only spends 49k in gold, yet he is able to more effectively utilize that 49k due to being able to "buy/craft" items for a reduced price.

Any character that crafts stuff does as above, they spend a reduced amount of gold (and often XP or a craft reserve) for a greater relative amount of power in equipment compared to a standard non-crafting character.

If you deny them that, then you are basically unfairly penalizing a character who has invested their skills, feats and class abilities into being able to craft equipment rather than fighting better or whatnot.