Question about creating an Artificer above 1st level

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Here's a quick Excel sheet she can use when crafting her items.

Thank you! This is perfect.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'd say, "Use the starting wealth to buy whatever you want. You can say that you've made whatever you qualify for."

I don't see how it's reaming someone to give him the amount of wealth he's supposed to start with. If we're talking about the Craft skill specifically, I'd give the items to the person for free, assuming the cost was negligible. But, really, I'd prefer him to buy his weapon and just say, "I made it."

The problem with this is that, to the artificer, magic items are worth half what the book price says. So if you give him the amount of wealth he's supposed to start with, that amount is different than what a character who doesn't craft magic items would have. Since his items are worth half book price and you're charging him full, he's at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the party.

But the issue isn't whether the artificer can spend his starting wealth (which already accounts for consumable magic items having been consumed) on making items. The issue is, how to figure the XP consumed from his regular XP compared to his item crafting pool. If it were my game, since we can't account for potions and wands and such that may have been used and may also have been salvaged for incorporation into new item, I would give only the full amount of XP pool from the previous level, and none from earlier levels. Some of the XP from the previous level may have gone to consumable items, but not all of the XP from the levels before that would have. I figure it will balance out to a happy medium, given the increasing scale of the XP pool.

 

[reveal]

But the issue isn't whether the artificer can spend his starting wealth (which already accounts for consumable magic items having been consumed) on making items. The issue is, how to figure the XP consumed from his regular XP compared to his item crafting pool. If it were my game, since we can't account for potions and wands and such that may have been used and may also have been salvaged for incorporation into new item, I would give only the full amount of XP pool from the previous level, and none from earlier levels. Some of the XP from the previous level may have gone to consumable items, but not all of the XP from the levels before that would have. I figure it will balance out to a happy medium, given the increasing scale of the XP pool.

But if you do that, you're hurting the player. If I create a 10th level fighter, I get 49,000gp to buy goods. I can buy armor, arms, magic items, etc. And I get everything. So why shouldn't a 10th level Artificer have access to everything he/she could possibly have made? You wouldn't let the fighter say "I bought 3 CLW potions with part of my 49k" and then say "Ok but you've used 2 of them" would you?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

But if you do that, you're hurting the player. If I create a 10th level fighter, I get 49,000gp to buy goods. I can buy armor, arms, magic items, etc. And I get everything. So why shouldn't a 10th level Artificer have access to everything he/she could possibly have made? You wouldn't let the fighter say "I bought 3 CLW potions with part of my 49k" and then say "Ok but you've used 2 of them" would you?

Well, the 49k assumes that he got some gold at 3rd level and spent it on something that no longer exists, so no, I wouldn't do that to the fighter. However, the artificer got some gold at 3rd level too, which is also not counted in his 49k gp. However, he used the gold to make potions, rather than buy them. He also used XP from his XP pool. Now that XP is gone, and not represented in any permanent items. I figure that something similar happened in level 9: he spent some of his pool crafting permanent items, and some crafting consumables which he used. So by giving him the full amount of XP pool for level 9, I'm accounting for previously-crafted permanent items from earlier levels, to some extent.

My solution is mostly fudging to account for that in a simplified way, and I'm not really claiming that it's going to account for every situation. Of course, considering that one of the problems is that you can't account for what the artificer may or may not have done with her XP over the course of 10 levels, some degree of fudging & uncertainty will be necessary. I suppose I could be persuaded to give a % of each level's XP pool back...but then it's starting to get overcomplex. Ideally, there would be a table for this sort of thing so no calculation would be required.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Thank you! This is perfect.

Glad to help!

Jdvn: Go read the PHB / DMG. Check the section on creating characters above 1st-level. Pay special attention to the section on determining a character's starting wealth and XP total.

Those are RAW.

 

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Jdvn: Go read the PHB / DMG. Check the section on creating characters above 1st-level. Pay special attention to the section on determining a character's starting wealth and XP total.

Those are RAW.

What does it say about starting XP total? I don't have the DMG in front of me.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What does it say about starting XP total? I don't have the DMG in front of me.

Don't tell players to start off "at 10th level."

Tell them to start off "with X amount of XP, enough to make a 10th-level human fighter."

That way, players can spend that XP crafting items, taking penalized multiclass combos, and casting XP draining spells (like permanency).

 

[Sil]

Another idea for you

I would think ballance is the most important goal.

Allow the artificer the approximate XP cost of the other players magical items, to craft as she sees fit for herself, subject to approval.

The player enters the party in a balanced way.

The excell sheet is nice, but with retain essance, and consumable items, you really cant guess what the reserve would be.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

For completeness, here's the exact text from the DMG (3.0 Version):

If you tell players to create characters of higher than 1st level, assign an experience point total for them to use. This is better than just assigning a level because it balances characters who take multi-classing penalties against those who do not. Then they should follow these [edited] steps:

1. Determine abilties normally
2. Determine character class
3. Determine character statistics.
4. Determine skills.
5. Equip the character.

Character-Created Magic Items: A PC spellcaster can spend as many of the XP and GP you have awarded toward making magic items as she wishes, provided that she has the proper item creation feats and prerequisites.

6. Work out the details.

 

[Saeviomagy]

jvdn1 - I think the sillyness of your position is highlighted by the fact that according to you a spellcaster in your campaign who spends XP to make an item has just flushed that XP down the toilet, because you will reward him with less treasure based on the amount that he saved.

In fact, he's probably flushing it down the toilet twice over, because you'd penalise treasure for him being a lower level due to the lost xp as well.

And he spent a feat to get this fantastic ability. Woo.