Question about negative levels

[Abraxas]

OK, I don't have my 3.0 books available right now to compare to the 3.5 books, and I have a question.

Is the loss of 5 hit points for every negative level gained something that was added in 3.5?

Thanks

 

[Legildur]

PHB 3.0 p280 (glossary):

... a creature suffers a -1 penalty to all skills checks, ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws, plus a -1 effective level penalty...

PHB 3.5 p310 (glossary) (my emphasis):

a creature takes a -1 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks, loses 5 hit points, and takes a -1 penalty to effective level...

So yeah, looks like it crept in with 3.5E, but I don't have a 3.0 DMG or MM to check other entries for consistency.

 

[isoChron]

SRD 3.5

Enervation:
...
If the subject has at least as many negative levels as HD, it dies. Each negative level gives a creature a –1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks, and effective level (for determining the power, duration, DC, and other details of spells or special abilities). Additionally, a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from his or her highest available level. Negative levels stack.

Assuming the subject survives, it regains lost levels after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15 hours). Usually, negative levels have a chance of permanently draining the victim’s levels, but the negative levels from enervation don’t last long enough to do so.

An undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d4x5 temporary hit points for 1 hour.

I don't see the -5 HP mentioned here. A leftover from 3.0 perhaps ?
DMG (3.0) doesn't mention -5 HP under Energy Drain. Seems to be added with 3.5.

 

[Li Shenron]

Not sure. I think in 3.0 there was a 5hp gain for a monster using a Su/Sp to drain energy.

The victim at least used to lose some Hp if the drain became permanent. But I don't remember if it lost Hp even before, when it had a "negative level". Probably 3.5 made it default to 5hp, maybe before it was a HD or nothing at all.

 

[dcollins]

Is the loss of 5 hit points for every negative level gained something that was added in 3.5?

3.0 did not include a loss for the drained creature... but it did include a gain of 5 hp for the draining creature (3.0 DMG p. 76 and MM p. 8).

 

[Abraxas]

Thats the way I remembered it.

Came up in an odd way in the last game I played in.
Several PCs (mine included) are carrying aligned weapons and suffering from negative levels.
One character was knocked to -1 or -2 hps and dropped the weapon he was carrying.
He immediately lost the negative level, gained 5 hp and was up and functioning.
This suprised me, cause I didn't know about the -5 hps (I'm playing a mage and its not included in the description of negative levels in the spells write ups for enervation or energy drain)

So now i've read up on negative levels in 3.5 and I can basically negate the penalties by sheathing the weapon I'm carrying and then drawing it again when I need its abilities.

Just seems odd.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Abraxas - are you playing in some really low magic world, or one where you cannot buy/create magic items? Maybe I'm the only one, but this is the first I've heard of someone willingly carrying around anything that imposes a negative level. Seems like one helluva price to pay... it would have to be damn near an artifact for me, or most of the people I game with, to consider carrying it.

 

[Durifern]

Abraxas - are you playing in some really low magic world, or one where you cannot buy/create magic items? Maybe I'm the only one, but this is the first I've heard of someone willingly carrying around anything that imposes a negative level. Seems like one helluva price to pay... it would have to be damn near an artifact for me, or most of the people I game with, to consider carrying it.

Perhaps it´s something like a "plot item":
PCs have to infiltrate an organization where members carry special weapons, something along that line...

 

[Sgiò Karka]

There are some disaccords in the 3.5 DMG for the Energy drained condition and the Energy drain & negative levels special abilitie, but the SRD are according to the -5 hp penalty for each negative level the personnage gain and for the 5 temporary hp for each negative level a creature bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect).

In the 3.0, the creature who bestows negative levels gain the temporary hp, but the personnage didn't loose hp at all.

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html

 

[Abraxas]

How about I give a little background. It'll do my soul good.

No we aren't playing in a low magic campaign, were in the Forgotten Realms.
Yes we don't ever have down time - an odd quirk with the gent that DMs, I can't think of a campaign ever run by him where the PCs have more than a day or two down time, and I don't know why. Its not like we would sit around roleplaying going to the bar every night for three months game time. He could just say "Four months have passed, email me what your characters wanted to do during that time and I'll get back to you." But he doesn't.

Truth be told, I haven't actually figured out what exactly it is we are doing.

We are currently working for an NPC called Abraer Thellblade trying to prevent the return of a vampire that Thellblade had originally stopped - something happened when he and his adventuring buddies did that that caused him to turn away from the church of Lathander. To this end we have been raiding former lairs of this vampire and his cronies, collecting his remains in bits and pieces. We really don't trust Thellblade, (it has been suggested that he is somehow under the former vampires control, or he is trying to bring back the vampire himself - but we haven't been able to get any hard info on him to support that - its just a hunch). In betwixt collecting vampire bits we keep getting side adventures, I get the feeling that the DM has something in store based on these side threads but None of the players has figured out what yet.

On one of these jaunts we got sent to the abyss, had to make a deal with a Vrock to get back, then ended up squaring off against the Vrock on the prime because we weren't doing what we said we'd do fast enough (Apparently there was a 12 hour time limit - cause that's how long it was before he came after us). During that tussle we became a low magic campaign when the vrock's cohort used a scroll of Mordenkainen's Disjunction on us - bye bye magic - Of all the people in the AoE only one ended up with more than 1 magic item survivng (Did I mention we were 7th and 8th level at the time - actually we're 7th, 8th and 9th level right now). Soon after that my character died so I rolled up a new one and made my first ever (since 1st Ed.) wizard.

In the meantime, while waiting on intell for the next lair of the vampire we hiked out for a side quest. In this side adventure we got a hold of 5 sort of magical, intelligent, adamantine weapons. A dagger, a punching dagger, a wierd looking scimitar, a great mace, and a baton. My character is carrying the baton - It grants a +4 to save vs Mind effect spells and a +10 to concentration checks, allows me to cast Calm Emotions 3/day and Psionic Blast 1/day - all for a single negative level cause I'm not the right alignment. Our party rogue is carrying a dagger that lets him ignore armor and natural armor when he attacks, I don't remember what the other weapons do. Also, when more than one is being wielded by different characters we get to use the best initiative roll of the bunch.

So, for two of us at least, the negative level is well worth it and I'm trying to figure out how to make the alignment switch in character so that I don't have that problem any more.