Question about regeneration

[Urbannen]

Last night our party fought a troll for the first time. There was some confusion about how to finally kill it.

The rules on regeneration say that you can kill a troll by delivering a coup de grace. However, unless the damage is fire or acid, it can't kill the troll. You can only deliver a coup de grace with a melee weapon, a bow, or a crossbow.

Does this mean that only a flaming or flaming burst weapon (or the equivalent acid weapons if they exist) can be used to kill a troll with a coup de grace?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Hm. I wonder if you could have made a coup de grâce attempt with, say, a lit torch or an alchemist's fire... They are not weapons per se but you still need an attack roll to score a hit.

Flame blade is an option, as well as, IMO, Produce flame. Acid arrow? probably...

With a flaming weapon, sure, but only the fire damage could cause real damage IMO.

The problem with all these options (if they are valid) is that they won't cause that much damage, and the troll will have a good chance of making his fort save, but of course, if you can attempt a few consecutive Coups de Grâce, you'll eventually succeed.

You could have killed the troll by suffocating it. Also, just by beating the troll continuously (ie making sure it stays unconscious) one guy with a lit torch could have done automatic damage every round (if it isn't possible to Coup de Grâce with a torch) until the creature was really dead...

AR

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think that you can make a CdG with everything that requires an attack roll. So you could theoretically make a CdG with Melf's Acid Arrow or a Scorching Ray (assuming you'd take a whole round doing it, aiming carefully before casting and shooting).

 

[Urbannen]

My DM was saying that anything with an attack role could be used to coup de grace - I tried my acid splash spell, for example. Even though I did 6 damage with a coup de grace critical, the troll easily made the DC 16 Fortitude save.

After rereading the PHB, I don't think you can use a spell to deliver a coup de grace, since the rules say specifically melee weapons, bows, and crossbows only.

I read up on torches, too, and they wouldn't count, either, because they are improvised weapons, not melee weapons.

Right now it looks like your best bet for killing a troll is to knock it unconscious with subdual damage then set it on fire with normal fire or to just do more normal damage with a flaming weapon.

It's just kind of weird that the rules mention the possibility of delivering a coup de grace on a regenerating creature like everybody does it, when in fact its pretty hard.

 

[Norfleet]

Hmm. Urine is acidic. Maybe you could kill the troll by leaving it to soak in a vat of urine?

 

[maddman75]

Heh RttToEE spoilers ahead

Spoiler

At one point, the PCs face a half-fiendish ogre mage. Note that an ogre mage has regeneration and takes normal damage from acid and fire. A half fiend gets fire and acid resistance: 20. Good luck killing him. About the only ways are to cut off his head and wait ten minutes, or tie him up and dump his body in a lake.

He doesn't have that many hit points for his CR, but he just kept coming back. One player ended up impaling his head to the ground with his sword to keep him down while they figured out what to do to him. The finally figured out the decapitation trick.

 

[Quez The Lame]

Get a 7th level wizard/sorcerer with scorching ray and let him do the CdG. That's 16D6 fire damage (scoring a crit with a touch spell is fun), so fire resistance 20 or even 30 is nice, but won't save you.

 

[Darklone]

We usually hacked him to pieces (-500 hitpoints due to subdual damage) and put all the pieces on a small wooden fire... took some time, but should do him in.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Hmm. Urine is acidic. Maybe you could kill the troll by leaving it to soak in a vat of urine?

He'll drown, he'll maybe die of disgust, but he won't dissolve...

AR

 

[NPC]

This kind of increases the anti-fun, IMO. Who wants to spend 30 minutes of "real" game time finishing off a Troll?

Is it THAT unbalancing to allow a non-fire/acid weapon do a coup de grace?