Question about Turning and Commanding

[candidus_cogitens]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about Turning and Commanding

If his cleric level is double the effective level of the undead (including turn resistance), the undead is commanded instead of rebuked.

But please look back at the first quotation in the first post on this thread. The SRD says that an evil cleric can command a creature with more HD than he has levels. If the cleric's level has to be double the creature's HD, then how can the HD be more?!?

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Can't anyone shed any light on this problem? I still don't see the solution. Can I get a few more opinions please?

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about Turning and Commanding

But please look back at the first quotation in the first post on this thread. The SRD says that an evil cleric can command a creature with more HD than he has levels. If the cleric's level has to be double the creature's HD, then how can the HD be more?!?

I answered this in my first post on this thread.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about Turning and Commanding

The limit on commanding undead is probably in reference to undead created by the cleric himself, via the Create Undead spells, which allow you to command the undead you create with a simple turn/rebuke check.

(I take it, this was what you were referring back to.)

This is a helpful suggestion, but it does not solve the problem. For one thing, the creatures that Create Undead or even Create Greater Undead allow you to create are still much lower than your caster level. But even more telling is the fact that those spell's descriptions refer you back to the rules for turning and commanding, since creatures you create are not automatically under your command. In Create Undead, it even says it might be a good idea to create weaker creatures than what you would could potentially create so that you could be more assured of successfully commanding them. So, clearly the creatures you create are treated in exactly the same way as other creatures. Nowhere in either section of the rules does it say anything differently. The only exception is based on the condition that you are only commanding a SINGLE as opposed to SEVERAL creatures--and it is that exception that I can find no clarification for.

 

[Pielorinho]

If this ever comes up in my game, I think I'll rule that the ability to command higher-HD creatures is an exception to the normal turning/destroying analogy: If you can rebuke the undead in question (with a high enough turn check and HD check), you can instead choose to command a single one of them, regardless of their HD relative to yours, as long as you concentrate on doing so.

This is a fairly powerful short-term ability for an evil cleric, but I don't think it's unbalancing: evil clerics don't have the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, which is IME much more useful than the ability to spontaneously cast inflict spells.

Daniel

 

[candidus_cogitens]

If this ever comes up in my game, I think I'll rule that the ability to command higher-HD creatures is an exception to the normal turning/destroying analogy: If you can rebuke the undead in question (with a high enough turn check and HD check), you can instead choose to command a single one of them, regardless of their HD relative to yours, as long as you concentrate on doing so.

Yeah, that's the only way I can see to treat it, unless there's any more insights to be considered . . .

 

[SheepLord]

We've got a lawful evil halfling cleric in our campaign. She took Spell Focus (necro) and Greater Spell Focus (necro) and has an 18 Wis to boot. (her str is only 8). The DC for her inflict spells is very high. She inflicts the piss out of alot of tougher enemies that we would otherwise have trouble hitting. Touch attacks, as powerful as inflict spells can be very, very useful. Also, monsters don't walk around with Resistance, Negetive Energy 20. They have fire and cold resistance, etc. Making inflict spells even more reliable. I had the same opinion of inflict spells, but I changed my mind when the Inflict Moderate Wound smack down was tearing up fire giants.

As far as the turning, I agree that the command one greater dead clause was not expounded well in the PHB, along with many other rules. For the rare case where this might come up, use some of Cablian's suggestions. It requires a call, and that's a good one.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

As far as the turning, I agree that the command one greater dead clause was not expounded well in the PHB, along with many other rules. For the rare case where this might come up, use some of Cablian's suggestions. It requires a call, and that's a good one.

Are you referring to Caliban's idea that it refers to creatures that the cleric created himself?

That would be more than just a "call." It would be a house rule.

 

[Caliban]

Are you referring to Caliban's idea that it refers to creatures that the cleric created himself?

That would be more than just a "call." It would be a house rule.

As is Pielorinho's suggestion. What's your point?

 

[Pielorinho]

As is Pielorinho's suggestion. What's your point?

Caliban, I just reread your first post in the thread, and I'm wondering if I misunderstood your suggestion. Lemme give an example to see if I'm understanding it now.

Vlad the Inhaler, an evil cleric of Huphyn, is 8th level. He fights 2 4HD wights, and decides to rebuke/command them. Since he rolls well enough, he's able to choose whether to rebuke or command them: he can command up to 8HD worth of undead, as long as they're 4 HD or less each. So he chooses to command both of them.

Later, Vlad comes across three ghouls, and decides to rebuke/command them. Again, he rolls well enough to affect all of them. However, he's already commanding 8HD worth of undead, his maximum limit. So he's got two choices:
1) He can rebuke all of them; or
2) He can command one of them, as long as he concentrates on doing so. As soon as he stops concentrating, he loses the ability to command them.

Still later, his commanded wights have been slain, and then he meets up with a 5 HD wraith. Again, he rolls well enough to affect it; however, since it has more than half his caster level in HD, he can only rebuke it. He cannot command it.

Is this how you interpret things? FWIW, now that I think about it, I think this might be the correct interpretation, and I recant what I wrote earlier.

Daniel