Question: Attack of Opportunity Penalties?

[Hypersmurf]

The -2 from Rapid Shot counts for all attacks you make during that full attack, because it says so right in the feat.

Actually, it says:
The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty.

An AoO is an attack you make in that round; if the attacks you make in a round with Rapid Shot are 'the extra one' and 'the normal ones', doesn't that mean that the AoO, since it is not 'the extra one', must be one of 'the normal ones'?

An AoO is not part of a full attack.

Does that make it not a 'regular attack', though?

Can a paladin Smite Evil on an AoO? Is there a difference between a 'normal attack' and a 'regular attack'? Can you take an AoO with an off-hand weapon when you're wielding a second weapon in your off-hand, and if so, which penalties apply?

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

This depends upon the interpretation of, "when fighting in this way".

If it means: when you gain an extra off-hand attack during a full attack, then the penalties don't persist through to the next round.

If it means: when you wield two weapons (as opposed to wielding one weapon and simply holding another), then the penalties do persist into Attacks of Opportunity.

From the Rules of the Game (if desired):
"If, after you made two-weapon attacks with your sword and torch, a foe later provokes an attack of opportunity from you that same round, you can strike that foe with your longsword with no two-weapon penalty at all."

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Actually, it says:
The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty.

An AoO is an attack you make in that round; if the attacks you make in a round with Rapid Shot are 'the extra one' and 'the normal ones', doesn't that mean that the AoO, since it is not 'the extra one', must be one of 'the normal ones'?



Does that make it not a 'regular attack', though?

Can a paladin Smite Evil on an AoO? Is there a difference between a 'normal attack' and a 'regular attack'? Can you take an AoO with an off-hand weapon when you're wielding a second weapon in your off-hand, and if so, which penalties apply?

-Hyp.

You left out the rest of the section, which changes the entire meaning.

Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

If it just said The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round takes a –2 penalty.
This is clearly different wording than the similar mechanic of a Monk's Flurry of Blows, which uses the wording you are inferring from Rapid Shot's entry:

Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action.

Nearly the same effect, but different durations of penalty entirely. Since they are in the same book, and have not been changed in an errata, then Rapid Shot applies to your normal and extra attack(s) in the full-round action, while FoB applies to all attacks, including AoO(s).

Your normal attacks, and the extra one ..THE EXTRA ONE, not all extra ones. It started to say all attacks total, but qualified the specific set of attacks which gain the penalty in the parentheses.

pa·ren·the·sis (pə-rĕn'thĭ-sĭs) pronunciation
n., pl. -ses (-sēz').

1. Either or both of the upright curved lines, ( ), used to mark off explanatory or qualifying remarks in writing or printing or enclose a sum, product, or other expression considered or treated as a collective entity in a mathematical operation.
2.
1. A qualifying or amplifying word, phrase, or sentence inserted within written matter in such a way as to be independent of the surrounding grammatical structure.
2. A comment departing from the theme of discourse; a digression.
3. An interruption of continuity; an interval: “This is one of the things I wasn't prepared for—the amount of unfilled time, the long parentheses of nothing” (Margaret Atwood).

 

[Hypersmurf]

You left out the rest of the section, which changes the entire meaning.

No, it doesn't. Flurry of Blows says you must use the full attack action as well; that clause is irrelevant to determining which attacks take the penalty. (You left out the rest of the section: When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.... but it didn't change the meaning in relation to which attacks take a penalty.)

The parenthetic comment (which I quoted) might; the full attack sentence doesn't.

Nearly the same effect, but different durations of penalty entirely. Since they are in the same book, and have not been changed in an errata, then Rapid Shot applies to your normal and extra attack(s) in the full-round action, while FoB applies to all attacks, including AoO(s).

Rapid Shot applies to every attack made in the round - it says so. Every attack in the round includes the extra one and the normal ones. If an attack, like an AoO, is made in the round, and it is not 'the extra one', it must by process of elimination be one of 'the normal ones'.

Your normal attacks, and the extra one ..THE EXTRA ONE, not all extra ones. It started to say all attacks total, but qualified the specific set of attacks which gain the penalty in the parentheses.

It didn't start to - it stated "each attack you make in the round". If the AoO is an attack you make in the round, it must, per the parenthetic comment, either be 'the extra one' or one of 'the normal ones'.

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

It's a copy and paste from 3.0. Remember in 3.0 you couldn't do a standard action and a move action in the same round. A standard action took up your entire round, but you were allowed a move (or move equivalent) action for free as part of this standard action, either before or after it.

So, bottom line:

In 3.0 language: Your next action = next round on your turn.

Actually in 3.0 there was no "move Actions" there was only move-equivalent actions.

You could subsitute a move-equivalent action for movement as part of the standard action. So you could do a standard action and a move-equivalent action in the same round.

But that is pretty much the same as what the 3.5 rules say. The real question was on AoO (which are outside your normal actions) and the rules were basically the same for them in 3.0 as in 3.5.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

TWF and Rapid Shot use the same format, i.e. normal attack(s) and the extra one that you gain suffer -x penalty, while AoOs are not effected. If Rapid Shot was supposed to apply to AoOs, it would specifically say so, because there is a precedent to how this was intended. (because Flurry of Blows applies to AOOs, it says so in the description.)

 

[Dheran]

If the penalties for Rapid Shot are persistent, then so are the benefits. This means that if you make a full attack and take the RS penalties, you can take the extra shot on an AoO rather than during the full attack. (The Attack of Opportunity itself must be a melee attack, of course.)