Question - Fighter/Warrior Levels to Military Ranks

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

Okay, lets put it D&D terms. A level 1 fighter has 3 feats, right? There were two fighters, one has cleave, dodge, and EWP (spiked chain) and the other has power attack, quick draw, and EWP (spiked chain). If both dont have weapons drawn, one is going to die in the first round or second round and its most likely the one without quick draw.

Now, lets put give these two fighters 2 wizard or cleric classes (not one gets cleric and the other gets wizard), they are evenly matched at close range but what would happen at close range? Also, loyalty; reliability; and resourcfulness play a role in ranking.

All I'm trying to is explain what the difference is between rankings, like I said before, my family has a lot of military background.

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

Oh yeah, this might help with ranking.

http://www.tesarta.com/www/resources/library/militaryrank.html

 

[S'mon]

All I'm trying to is explain what the difference is between rankings, like I said before, my family has a lot of military background.

Well I was in the (UK) military for a couple of years but I'm still not sure what you're getting at...

 

[clark411]

I'm just picturing a dungeon crawl...

"Good luck, Private!"

week passes

"Welcome back, Captain!"

As for gaining ranks in the army, I'd have field tests for NCO's based on Knowledge (War or an equivalent), and formal exams for officers based on Knowledge (War or an equivalent), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Knowledge (History)... assuming a military system that was based at least partially on merit as well as birth. The average Fighter will never keep up entirely with the Aristocrat, but investing the points, rather than in say... jump... he can advance at a decent pace.

A highly intelligent or devoted Fighter can keep pace with the advantages given to an Aristocrat by birth, as could investing an early feat in one of those "I get Knowledge as a class skill" feats that's out there.

Just chucking ideas out at this point, but give certain campaign events bonuses...
The favor of the King: +4 circumstance bonus
Successfully completed campaign: +2 circumstance bonus
Trained at Officer's Academy (500g fee): +2 circumstance bonus
Temporary Field Commission for Rank being tested: +2 circumstance bonus

Large Standing Army: NCO tests every 3 months, Officer tests/review every 6 months.
Small Standing Army: NCO tests every 6 months, Officer tests/review every 12 months.
Nation at War: Testing periods halved.
Stagnant Military: Testing periods doubled.

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

To be honest, I was told this at 6 years old. If it doesnt make sense, then I understand. I was trying to put it in D&D terms, which I'm not good at it seems. Anyways, I was trying to say that with feats and skills that humans dont normally gain like D&D in levels that it would be different for ranking positions. It would take years (sometimes decades) to get to Corporal while it seems that a level 3 fighter could easily do it by those charts, even if the said fighter was a 16 year old person.

Human adult in D&D=15. Kinda scary if a 16 year old was a Corporal if you think about it.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Ugh....
A simple question that was all it was.

It was mainly for a professional military on the Enlisted side.
80-90% based on experience of their level for their rank.
Figure the other 10-20% are through deeds and who they know.

I like the Idea for the Warrior +1 = Fighter for rankings. What do you think of the following as rough equilivants?

E-1: Warrior 1-3; Fighter 1
E-2: Warrior 3-4; Fighter 2
E-3: Warrior 5; Fighter 3
E-4: Warrior 6; Fighter 4-5
(This rank is the given rank to any accompanying Cleric's or Mage's
who do not have rank already, exception pretaining to Officers or Fighter/Cleric's or Fighter/Mages.)
E-5 and above are all Fighter levels. Due to their training. These are your NCO's for this military force.
E-5: Fighter 5-6
E-6: Fighter 6-7
E-7: Fighter 7-8 (Minimum level of the Royal Guard)
E-8: Fighter 8-9
E-9: Fighter 9-10

 

[Funeris]

I like where you're going with this clark411. Having been military intell for the army, experience (while represented in some vague fashion by levels) is never just about 'level' in the real world. What I mean to say is having E-1 thru E-8 being just Warrior 1-8 is very...well boring. It doesn't explain the skills that would be needed to be say a First Sergeant, or whatever. If Yeti were actually making PrCs (which he's not)...then he could simply say you need to be such-and-such warrior rank to enter the Sergeant PrC.

But again, he's not. So, we're left to decide (or help him decide) exactly what is required for these individual ranks. I'm going to say maybe you need X amount of levels of Fighter. But to actually increase in "rank" you need ranks in expert. With expert you're going to get 10 skills (that you pick) all of which can be applicable to the Art of War. Including therein would be Knowledge: War, Profession: Soldier, etc.

Its still oversimplifying the process however. But I think its better than just plain old levels of warrior. I also think the Leadership feat would be required for Sergeant or higher. Just my 2 coppers on this Tuesday morning.



~Fune

 

[Funeris]

Oh and levels of Aristocrat can be substituted for levels of Expert. Forgot to say that.

 

[TheYeti1775]

To be honest, I was told this at 6 years old. If it doesnt make sense, then I understand. I was trying to put it in D&D terms, which I'm not good at it seems. Anyways, I was trying to say that with feats and skills that humans dont normally gain like D&D in levels that it would be different for ranking positions. It would take years (sometimes decades) to get to Corporal while it seems that a level 3 fighter could easily do it by those charts, even if the said fighter was a 16 year old person.

Human adult in D&D=15. Kinda scary if a 16 year old was a Corporal if you think about it.

No what is scary using the rules I rolled a minimum age for a Wizard.
He was 16 at 1st level. Not bad.
Through their adventures before his 17th birthday he was 8th and going strong.

And I would hate to burst your bubble, but there are 19 year old Corporals over in the sandbox right now. So age isn't as big of a factor as you think.

You can have your grizzled old vets that are 55 years old and still a Corporal or a Sgt.

For some background the country in mind is only 9 years removed from a large-scale war. The skirmishes only died down within the last 5. Even nowadays patrols run up against various montrous humanoids.

Most promotions are battlefield promotions, thinking along the lines of once this is set, of using the old British Marines way of promotions. Unless someone dies you ain't getting promoted. The scales above are just for the initial setup, not the go in a Private come out Sgt Major route.

Thanks,
Yeti

 

[SBMC]

Fighter versus Warrior:
Some of you have mixed and matched a fighter and warrior; as if they are comparable. Think about what a fighter is; he is more than just a professional hack and slash expert. He is the master of the art of war. A fighter is leaps and bounds ahead of a warrior in most ways - thus in a DnD setting fighters would almost always have a leadership role in a military organization. They are the fully trained elite of fighting men and women. Warriors are the standard fare of troops - fighters are the ones who got extensive schooling (one way or the other) in the art of war.

However there are those "professional armies" (Cormyr comes to mind) that do indeed field fighters only. However local militias, reserves, town guards and the like would still be warriors. This professional army would be he standing army; not the full blown wartime contingent of the army. And note - this would be expensive to field given the extensive training required.

See the following link: http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/cormyrforces.htm

In most armies Fighters would be the squad leaders (at the lowest levels) and above with most warriors never getting into any sort of a leadership role unless they truly excel. In other words a 1st level fighter could command even 2nd or 3rd level warriors - as if Fighters are the "Officers" that command even more "experienced" troops.

Ranks and Levels
Truly ranks and levels have nothing to do with one another. Would a 15th level Chaotic Neutral character actually be of a higher rank than a Lawful Neutral Character in a military organization? The Chaotic character would have a very hard time working within a military structure to begin with (staying true to the alignment that is). Does a 4th level Warrior have better skills than a 3rd level Fighter?


Experience
Don't forget that the world is made up of folks that rarely get past 1st level at all. The most common ones who do are master crafts people and the like that actually get work that generates a small volume of experience points daily. Warriors would tend to be those that "signed up" went to "basic training" then went to their units to serve their time in the army (or navy perhaps). If warriors serve in an army in a long term war they may rise in level - but they would be career type soldiers and as such would tend to be actual fighters anyway not line troops.

One of my own characters that has the Leadership feat recruited a starting contingent of followers He has 15 first level warriors and 1 5th level warrior (their commander - go figure a warrior!). So who are the "squad" leaders? A first level warrior with 500 Experience points is more experienced than a first level warrior with 10 experience points. This is not discernable mechanically in the rules but it does exist in roleplay. That 500 xp NPC might be 40 years old as well - making him wiser amongst other things.

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As a side note: In a campaign I ran if an NPC that started as a Warrior then got the proper experience and/or schooling I would then allow for a conversion to the fighter class of his warrior class levels. But that has only happened once with a follower (the PC paid for the schooling himself). Without a PC around - if I were developing NPC's from start to finish I would do the same thing; after a certain level of experience and training the Warrior really becomes a fighter. Of course the NPC would have to take the steps to make this conversion such a finding a high level fighter to train him and the like. Thus I could still have plenty of high level warriors around. The rules would say Multi-class but I have a different opinion.

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The "Heroes of the Battle" book details these ideas in a variety of places. I don't agree with all of them - I think many examples are "fighter heavy" and the Dwarf portion is out of whack but that is my opinion.

Modern Army Structure: Page 15
Feudal Military Hierarchy: Page 15
Clan Hierarchy: Page 16
Clan Military Structure: Page 16
Commanders (and commander rating): Page 75
Sample Ranks (table 4-6) Page 76
Examples of armies: Starts on page 137 (Appendix 1)