Question - Fighter/Warrior Levels to Military Ranks

[Funeris]

Yeti, you could ask an administrator to bump this over to the house rules forum...maybe we could get some individuals to whip up some PrCs. I'm thinking now that a Soldier is a class by itself (because Fighters & Warriors just get so few skill points, that they're nothing but Cannon-fodder). Of course, it could be a prestige class with a min. BAB requirement...albeit a very low BAB requirement...maybe +2 or +3.

Then your soldier class/PrC gives you a set number of abilities (whatever they may be) and skills (Knowledge: War, etc.). Then, you get a higher level PrC for Sergeants...requiring the Leadership feat for entry and maybe a +6/+7 min. BAB requirement.

Could make a feat called Chain-of-command...any Soldier in the same Army of lower rank must follow the orders of his superiors....

then, you come up with all sorts of PrCs...to represent the differing MOSes (Military Occupational Specialties). For example, you'd need some MPs (Military Police) to keep the law...and subordinates in line if they get out of line....or the superiors in line if what their orders are not kosher.

But now it may be getting just a little complex (what with all the MOSes in existence in the current Army...although obviously some of these might not be usable in a fantasy army anyway). But you could set out the basics, anyway. Military Police, Military Intelligence (including Interrogators), Counter-Intelligence (with some roguish requirements), Infantry, Artillery (your mages/rangers)...etc. etc.

 

[clark411]

Going along those lines, it might be possible to just make an equivalent to Racial Substitution levels for a soldier, but have them be "Soldier Substitution levels"

Ie: first level Fighter who subs Soldier may get a few bonus class skills, loses the bonus feat, but gains Endurance to reflect all the marching. first level Cleric who does the same loses a domain power of his choosing, but gets martial profs.

 

[Parlan]

Okay, lets put it D&D terms. A level 1 fighter has 3 feats, right? There were two fighters, one has cleave, dodge, and EWP (spiked chain) and the other has power attack, quick draw, and EWP (spiked chain). If both dont have weapons drawn, one is going to die in the first round or second round and its most likely the one without quick draw.

Huh?!

First, Cleave requires Power Attack, so the first FTR has one feat too many. Second, since neither has iterative attacks (being first level), Quick Draw is useless. Whoever wins init isi likely to kill the other. Accordingly, Imp Init would be much more effective than Quick Draw.

What were you getting at exactly?

 

[orsal]

A fighter is leaps and bounds ahead of a warrior in most ways - thus in a DnD setting fighters would almost always have a leadership role in a military organization.

I disagree. Fighter feats are all about effective use of your own weapon, not effective command of a legion (or battalion, or whatever). There isn't a single fighter bonus feat that makes you a more effective leader, at any level of the organization. Moreover, consider that intelligence and charisma are both common dump stats for fighters, but probably the two most important abilities for officers -- intelligence for strategy and tactics, charisma for command and leadership. A fighter with good officer skills could be developed, but the average fighter wouldn't make a good officer.

If fighters are part of a military organization, I'd see them as an elite squadron, used for special missions more than open battles. The ranks of the legions would be populated by warriors, probably commanded by an aristocrat (historically) or expert (modern army) with a few fighter levels.

 

[Janx]

In my own game, I associate rank with level, but level does not guarrantee rank.

Meaning, that speaking abstractly, I could say that if that NPC is a Lieutenant, he's roughly 4th level.

However, if I said that NPC is 4th level, he MIGHT be a lieutenant, possibly lower, possibly higher. The rank simply gives a benchmark, against which to measure exceptional and inferior individuals.

In my own game, rank is important. The PCs are in the military. I have belt ranks for the monk's school, works the same way. Basically, you could assume a Black Belt is 12th level, but there is no guarrantee of it. Nor does reaching 12th level monk make you a black belt. But for abstract purposes of creating NPCs and for promoting PCs (knowing when to), it works well enough.

Janx

 

[TheYeti1775]

In my own game, I associate rank with level, but level does not guarrantee rank.

Meaning, that speaking abstractly, I could say that if that NPC is a Lieutenant, he's roughly 4th level.

However, if I said that NPC is 4th level, he MIGHT be a lieutenant, possibly lower, possibly higher. The rank simply gives a benchmark, against which to measure exceptional and inferior individuals.

In my own game, rank is important. The PCs are in the military. I have belt ranks for the monk's school, works the same way. Basically, you could assume a Black Belt is 12th level, but there is no guarrantee of it. Nor does reaching 12th level monk make you a black belt. But for abstract purposes of creating NPCs and for promoting PCs (knowing when to), it works well enough.

Janx

Think you and Funeris (because I email him all the time to update his story hours), are the closest. Its not a set in stone structure I'm looking for. Just a simple basis in which to mold the base of the military down.

Thanks all.
Yeti

 

[The_Universe]

I don't think I'd map ranks to fighter or warrior levels in D&D - it just doesn't make sense as a PC, and it makes just as little sense for the majority of major NPCs.

This is what I did with military rank in the Army in my last D&D game:

Ranks in the Royal Army of the Falcon Kingdom

Swordsmen/Draconeteer – A soldier. Lowest rank. (1)

Corporal – Commands a squad of soldiers. At full strength, a Corporal’s squad will have 8 soldiers. (8)

Sergeant – Non-commisioned officer. Generally, serves as an aid to a commanding Lieutenant.

Second Lieutenant – A Commissioned officer that Commands 5 Squads. In the King’s army, 5 squads is a Shield. (40)

First Lieutenant – Commands 3 Shields (15 Squads). 3 Shields is a Section. (120)

Captain – Commands 2 Sections (6 Shields). 2 Sections is a Company. (240)

Major – Staff adjutant, or aid to a colonel. Often the Signaler for a commanding Colonel. Occasionally, Majors can be found commanding under strength Battalions. In this case, the Major is referred to by the field rank of Commander.

Colonel – Commands 3 Companies. 3 companies is a Battalion. (720)

Brigadier – Commands a Brigade. A Brigade is 3 Companies. (2160)

Wing General – Commands a Wing. A Wing is 4 Brigades. (8640)

Lieutenant General – Commands a Corps. A Corps is 3 Wings. (25920)

General –Commands an Army. Armies, in the falcon kingdom, are generally assigned to geographic locations, rather than divided by task. Thus, there is an Army of the Western Realm, and Army of the Eastern Realm, an Army of Prydein, and an Army of the Watch (Quarion’s wall). In terms of strength, an army is usually 3-4 Corps. In the Falcon Kingdom , the Western and Eastern Armies are relatively weak (3 Corps, or 76860 soldiers) while the Army of the Watch and the Army of Prydein are relatively strong (4 Corps, or 102780 soldiers).

Marshal – Commands all 4 armies, if appointed by the King, and Confirmed by the Noble’s council. If vacant, the King Serves as commander of the Armies of the Falcon. This position is currently vacant. (359,280)

 

[WayneLigon]

How do you all handle rankings and levels? At least the enlisted side. Everyone does their officers differently, depending on social rankings usually. And they don't pretain to what I need right now.

I don't. Levels and military rank don't really track together unless you're dealing with a total meritocracy and even then, the ability to cleave people in twain doesn't mean you're a good leader, motivator and tactician - all things that officers must be. In fact, the fighter/warrior core class as written makes for a pretty poor military officer.

In most worlds I've run, in fact, the normal fighter can never be a military officer regardless of how good he is: that's reserved for people in the aristocracy. They, if they are smart, rely on the good warriors to advice them, but they don't have to. Occassionally a really spectacular (PC-grade) fighter will make such a name for himself as a skilled combatant that he is elevated to the aristocracy. Or poisoned and left to die in a dung pit for daring to get above his betters, depending on the exact part of the realm you're in.

 

[TheYeti1775]

UGH UGH UGH

I said Enlisted Side
NOT OFFICER SIDE

Don't worry about replying.

Now that being said.
Thank you Mr. Universe for that Army breakdown. Very useful.
It's a good break down of what I expected for the army as a whole. I might just yoink it, if I may.

Most likely route I shall take will be the Sub Classes that were recommended.

Thanks
Yeti

 

[The_Universe]

UGH UGH UGH

I said Enlisted Side
NOT OFFICER SIDE

Don't worry about replying.

Now that being said.
Thank you Mr. Universe for that Army breakdown. Very useful.
It's a good break down of what I expected for the army as a whole. I might just yoink it, if I may.

Most likely route I shall take will be the Sub Classes that were recommended.

Thanks
Yeti

Feel free - that fake order of battle is my gift to the world.

Anyway, as to your original request, in a fantasy army there probably aren't a lot of enlisted ranks. You're a soldier, or your a noble given command of a unit of soldiers. The modern system didn't really come into use until the mid to late 19th century in the real world, long after professional volunteer armies became common. What I think you might be missing, Yeti, is that pretty much everyone here is politely suggesting that game levels *do not* transfer well to enlisted ranks, and that perhaps you might try a different track in order to preserve verisimilitude in your game...

At least that's most of what I'm seeing. YMMV.