Questions about poisons

[Aries_Omega]

I have looked all over for this and can't seem to find the answer. When a character or NPC for that matter ingests 1 dose of a poison do they make one save for the initial damage and then 1 minute later another for the secondary? Do they make one save vs. the poison and if they fail that save the secondary happens automatically in 1 minute? How does poison work is the long and short of it.

Depending on the answer I may have a follow up question.

Thank you all in advance for the help.

 

[akbearfoot]

Poisons typically require 2 saves. Once for the initial damage, and again for the secondary damage. Making the first save makes no difference.

Of course, not all poisons work exactly alike. If you are DMing, you have the right to make things a little more interesting.


I've played in games where a poison stayed in your body until you succeeded on 2 saves in a row, and kept on doing damage once per minute. Your players will take more serious precautionary measures if you do it that way

 

[freyar]

Here's the quote:

When a character takes damage from an attack with a poisoned weapon, touches an item smeared with contact poison, consumes poisoned food or drink, or is otherwise poisoned, he must make a Fortitude saving throw. If he fails, he takes the poison’s initial damage (usually ability damage). Even if he succeeds, he typically faces more damage 1 minute later, which he can also avoid with a successful Fortitude saving throw.

So you make 1 save against initial damage, then 1 minute later make another save vs secondary damage.

 

[Aries_Omega]

Here's the quote: So you make 1 save against initial damage, then 1 minute later make another save vs secondary damage.

Okay...with that said...say the person drank 6 doses...that is 6 initial saves and 6 secondary saves if I am reading this right?

 

[irdeggman]

Okay...with that said...say the person drank 6 doses...that is 6 initial saves and 6 secondary saves if I am reading this right?

I would say no.

I don't believe poisons stack.

A dose of poison is just a convenient measuring tool.

Note that the quote does not address mutliple doses it only says when consuming. . . .

From Rules Compendium (pg 109)

Each instance of poison damages a character separately. In the case of poisons that have nondamaging effects, those effects do not stack, but each one runs for its full duration.


So it comes down to what is an instance of poisoning?

I say it is poison that happens at the same time - like from drinking a glass full of multiple doses.

 

[Jack Simth]

I say it is poison that happens at the same time - like from drinking a glass full of multiple doses.

Logic Check: if I've got ten shot glasses with a DC 10 poison, and drink them separately, I make twenty DC 10 Fortitude checks (ten initial, ten secondary); if I pour all ten shot glasses into a single mug and drink that, I make two DC 10 Fortitude checks?

 

[irdeggman]

Logic Check: if I've got ten shot glasses with a DC 10 poison, and drink them separately, I make twenty DC 10 Fortitude checks (ten initial, ten secondary); if I pour all ten shot glasses into a single mug and drink that, I make two DC 10 Fortitude checks?

What is the onset time? If it is not instaneous then they would go into effect at more or less the same time right?

If, as most poisons do, it has an immediate effect - then the saving throws would be after each drink (or glass since a glass is drunk withmore or less one action).


Logic doesn't always (or even usually) work when it comes to D&D - the game system (especially combat) is too vague.

Can you mix potions and still have them all work normally?

 

[freyar]

Poison damage stacks as usual. Look back at the Rules Compendium quote:

Each instance of poison damages a character separately. In the case of poisons that have nondamaging effects, those effects do not stack, but each one runs for its full duration.

Non-stacking only for nondamaging effects, but each dose still applies for its duration. So: drink 10 doses of Con-damaging poison, make 20 saves. Drink 10 doses of sleep-inducing poison, still make 20 saves, but you might only sleep the same amount of time as if you drank 1 dose (depending on how soon after each other you drank the doses). Of course, if you want to save dice rolls, your DM could rule that you make one save for all the doses. But you really should take all the damage.

Re: potion mixing. In 3.X, potions work fine if you drink multiple ones, and there is nothing specifically about mixing them in vitro as it were. Though there was a revival of the older edition miscibility rules in IIRC an April Fool's article from the WotC website a couple years ago.

 

[Aries_Omega]

The Poison

If you are one of my players....leave now.
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Okay...now that the kids are gone....here is the scoop. There is an assasin that is trying to kill the noble they been put told by their lord to be in his entourage and protect. He is shooken up after a failed sniper attempt and the assassin is getting miffed that he keeps failing at his mission. When the noble sends for a physician to dispense with medicine (he needs something for his nerves) he instead poisons him with a variant of Dark Reaver Powder. The first symptoms takes effect 30 minutes later. He decides to lace 6 doses in the medcines he has him take. It does this

Dark Reave Powder Variant - Ingested - DC 20 - Initial is 1d6 CON + 2d6 Vitality Points- Secondary is 1d6 CON + 1d4 Wound Points.....BTW I use the Vitality and Wound Point system found in Unearthed Arcana and in the old Star Wars RPG. If you need a rough translation....treat the extra non Con damage as HP damage in the initial and in the secondary he is paralyzed with pain and is "fatigued" until healed.

Anyhow...he has about 6 doses from the medcines he was given by the assassin disguised as the doctor. He is about screwed unless the PCs can figure out what to do.

 

[irdeggman]

Poison damage stacks as usual. Look back at the Rules Compendium quote:



Non-stacking only for nondamaging effects, but each dose still applies for its duration. So: drink 10 doses of Con-damaging poison, make 20 saves. Drink 10 doses of sleep-inducing poison, still make 20 saves, but you might only sleep the same amount of time as if you drank 1 dose (depending on how soon after each other you drank the doses). Of course, if you want to save dice rolls, your DM could rule that you make one save for all the doses. But you really should take all the damage.

As I pointed out earlier it depends on how you define "instance" - note it does not say "dose".

To me it is fairly clear that they are talking about taking poison damage at different times and not at the same time (as in drinking a multiple dosed beverage). Those rules are not clearly addressed.