Questions about the Shifter PrC

[EOL]

I'm hoping to play a Druid, shooting for the Shifter PrC in a new campaign that's starting and I have a few questions:

1- Dire and Legendary animals are never mentioned as a type, does this mean that the shifter can never assume those forms?

2- The wild shape power says, "The druid may only adopt one animal form per use of this ability." Does this mean if a Druid has wild shape 3x/day that they only three animals that they can change into ever, or is it a way of restating that when the druid turns into an animal he's stuck as that animal until he turns back again?

3- I can't seem to find anything that states this explicitly but does a single shapechange last as long as the Druid/Shifter chooses?

3- Every time the Shifter changes form they heal damage, with evershifting form it would appear that they can heal an unlimited amount of damage, if so, do you think that's overpowered, if not why?

4- Is the class balanced? The flexibility of the class is such that there would seem to be lots of possibility for abuse. Right off the top of my head being able to take the form of a Roper(all abilities extraordinary, ECL +18) at 10th level seems out of whack.

5- Assuming that 90% of the creatures the Shifter can change into are okay any suggestions on handling the 10% that could be abused?

I'm basically trying to think of all the objections my DM is going to come up with, so I can have an immediate answer.

 

[Mahali]

1. Not unless you already can as a druid.
2. Each time you use wild shape you choose a form. To change into another creature you use another wild shape for the day.
3. Yes. I've heard 1hr/lvl but have never seen this anywhere.
3a. No because they don't increase in caster levels or spell knowledge. To go with Shifter is to give up a lot of spell power.
4. Just reading it I'd say so. Need to see it in the hands of a devious person to find out for sure.

 

[drowdude]

1- Dire and Legendary animals are never mentioned as a type, does this mean that the shifter can never assume those forms?

Their type is animal and the Size and HD limitations in regards to Dire/Legendary animals is built into the class.

2- The wild shape power says, "The druid may only adopt one animal form per use of this ability." Does this mean if a Druid has wild shape 3x/day that they only three animals that they can change into ever, or is it a way of restating that when the druid turns into an animal he's stuck as that animal until he turns back again?

It is the latter.

3- I can't seem to find anything that states this explicitly but does a single shapechange last as long as the Druid/Shifter chooses?

I always assumed that the druid remained in the chosen form as long as they desired. Although it could be limited to 1/hour per level as the Polymorph Self spell is.

3- Every time the Shifter changes form they heal damage, with evershifting form it would appear that they can heal an unlimited amount of damage, if so, do you think that's overpowered, if not why?

I dont think it's terribly overpowered. The Shifter will be at least 15th level at this point and has sacrificed most of their spells for this ability, including spells like Heal.

4- Is the class balanced? The flexibility of the class is such that there would seem to be lots of possibility for abuse. Right off the top of my head being able to take the form of a Roper(all abilities extraordinary, ECL +18) at 10th level seems out of whack.

My personal belief is that the class is balanced. A spellcaster is sacrficing alot for these abilities.

5- Assuming that 90% of the creatures the Shifter can change into are okay any suggestions on handling the 10% that could be abused?

Not really, other than simply disallowing them.

 

[Chun-tzu]

3- Every time the Shifter changes form they heal damage, with evershifting form it would appear that they can heal an unlimited amount of damage, if so, do you think that's overpowered, if not why?

Seeing as Fast Healing and Regeneration are both extraordinary powers, maybe the unlimited shifting is a moot point. Regeneration should be used like the ring of regeneration, so it only covers damage that you've taken in that form. But if you're near death and transform into a Myrmach Formian, it doesn't make sense to me that Fast Healing wouldn't work.

If I were DMing a Shifter, I'd rule that you couldn't change into some exotic creature that you had never encountered before. The PHB and MotW don't state this, but it makes sense to me. So, I'd suggest that you and your DM work up a list of acceptable forms, which at low levels should include all the animals from the region in which the druid originates.

 

[Ruvion]

Originally posted by EOL
5- Assuming that 90% of the creatures the Shifter can change into are okay any suggestions on handling the 10% that could be abused?

To answer your question, Chun-tzu brings up a valid observation...

Originally posted by Chun-tzu
If I were DMing a Shifter, I'd rule that you couldn't change into some exotic creature that you had never encountered before. The PHB and MotW don't state this, but it makes sense to me.

Now, see page 11 of MotW, it says (the Wild Shape rules update is availble from WotC website)...

From page 11 of Masters of the Wild
...The form chosen must be that of an animal she is familiar with. For example, a druid who has never been outside a temperate forest could not become a polar bear.

and page 69 of Motw, under the entry of Greater Wild Shape...

From page 69 of Masters of the Wild
...Greater wild shape works like wild shape, with the following exceptions...

I will not detail the list of exceptions due to copyright reasons, but suffice to say, that the exceptions do not contradict the above ruling on wild shape...which lead me to the conclusion that, as Chun-tzu astutely proposed, you can not use greater wild shape into a creature that you have not seen before as per the rules. The DM could abjucate that you must study the specie (the more complex the specie maybe longer the study period) you want to greater wild shape into before using that form.

 

[Ruvion]

This enforce the question, would planetars, pit fiends, and young adult gold dragon tolerate a druid studying him/her/it (this is despite the druid's effort to remain hidden from his study subjects...for the more powerful beings usually have all sorts of access to divination or means of divination)...maybe the DM may rule that, the druid must have full permission of his study subject in order to emulate it using her greater wild shape. The list of restrictions are endless for a DM that thinks this through carefully.

 

[nharwell]

This enforce the question, would planetars, pit fiends, and young adult gold dragon tolerate a druid studying him/her/it (this is despite the druid's effort to remain hidden from his study subjects...for the more powerful beings usually have all sorts of access to divination or means of divination)...maybe the DM may rule that, the druid must have full permission of his study subject in order to emulate it using her greater wild shape. The list of restrictions are endless for a DM that thinks this through carefully.

I would argue a restriction like that would make greater wildshape useless, particularly considering that you sacrifice so much spell power for the ability. IMHO, "familiar with" implies "having seen." That is still a significant restriction, and should limit abusive players.

 

[EOL]

Mahali says
1. Not unless you already can as a druid.

And...

drowdude says
Their type is animal and the Size and HD limitations in regards to Dire/Legendary animals is built into the class.

Anybody want to break the tie? I'm inclined to go with the former since Druids have to be 12th level to take a Dire Form (Shifters would get it at 2nd/7th) and they never get to turn into Legendary Animals. And everywhere else it seems to be mentioned explicitly, for example the Animal Lords who don't get legendary until 10th level.

Although on the other hand the shifter is the master of shapechanging....The Druid just moonlights as one...

 

[CRGreathouse]

drowdude is correct.

 

[EOL]

I would argue a restriction like that would make greater wildshape useless, particularly considering that you sacrifice so much spell power for the ability. IMHO, "familiar with" implies "having seen." That is still a significant restriction, and should limit abusive players.

I would agree, that having to tail a pit fiend for a week is a extraodinary. Having seen one is much more reasonable.

Like many campaigns we've instituted a Knowledge(Fantastic Beasts) I was thinking of suggesting that the shifter would have to make a check with this ability when he got to the level where that shape was available, if he failed the check he would have to wait until the next level to try again. The DC would be determined as follows:

Interaction+ECL+Commonality=DC

Where interaction is:
Interacted with or fought multiple times- 10
Interacted or fought with once- 15
Merely Seen- 20
Read about or talked to someone familiar with- 25
Heard about- 30

Where ECL is the new improved ECL's in Dragon magazine.

And Commonality ranges from -5 for extremely common to +5 for extremely rare.

So if the Shifter had merely heard of a Pit Fiend I would expect that the DC would be 30+26+5=61 Essentially impossible, but impossible based on a reasonable premise.