Questions on Traps (SPOILERS to the DMG-Dungeon)

[Kaledor]

I've read trhough the traps section of the DMG and thought it made sense, but when prepping the DMG-Sample dungeon, nothing seems to fit.

Question 1: In the DMG, Area 2 (p213)
The Dart Trap is listed as making an immediate interrupt attack.
This would imply that the trap only gets to make ONE attack each round, so once trap #2 has fired in the round, all other #2 trigger squares are free and safe. BUT the trap isn't listed with an Initiative Roll, which implies to me that it does really "take a turn"... So why is this an interrupt and not an Opportunity Attack (like the spear gauntlet trap on p87)?? Or perhaps a Free Action so that a character could get hit multiple times if they passed through multiple triggers (but that would probably make it too powerful).

I'm just confused.



Question 2: In the DMG, Area 4 (p217)
Not really a question and more of an observation:
The boulder has an Initiative Roll, so it will take a turn just like any other creature in combat. Based on the text, it sounds like the boulder is supposed to attack the PC the moment they enter the room, but if you look at the course of the boulder... it goes in the opposite direction from the PCs I guess it will come around eventually. I guess it is just meant to be a moving obstical and something to make the room interesting.
I am assuming that the boulder actually moves 16 squares a turn because it can take two move actions instead of a move and a standard.



Question 3: In the DMG, Area 5 (p218)
How/why is there a white dragon squeezed in this room with only an exit made for a medium-sized creature

 

[Starbuck_II]

I've read trhough the traps section of the DMG and thought it made sense, but when prepping the DMG-Sample dungeon, nothing seems to fit.

Question 1: In the DMG, Area 2 (p213)
The Dart Trap is listed as making an immediate interrupt attack.
This would imply that the trap only gets to make ONE attack each round, so once trap #2 has fired in the round, all other #2 trigger squares are free and safe. BUT the trap isn't listed with an Initiative Roll, which implies to me that it does really "take a turn"... So why is this an interrupt and not an Opportunity Attack (like the spear gauntlet trap on p87)?? Or perhaps a Free Action so that a character could get hit multiple times if they passed through multiple triggers (but that would probably make it too powerful).

I'm just confused.

I think they meant an opportunity attack. After all, an opportunity attack does immediate interrupt (if you read page 290 of PHB).
Unlike other immediate interrupts; you can perform opportunity attacks per combanant turn.

So, it might be the best idea to treat it as a opportunity attack (with the darts having threatening reach in all trigger squares)

Question 2: In the DMG, Area 4 (p217)
Not really a question and more of an observation:
The boulder has an Initiative Roll, so it will take a turn just like any other creature in combat. Based on the text, it sounds like the boulder is supposed to attack the PC the moment they enter the room, but if you look at the course of the boulder... it goes in the opposite direction from the PCs I guess it will come around eventually. I guess it is just meant to be a moving obstical and something to make the room interesting.
I am assuming that the boulder actually moves 16 squares a turn because it can take two move actions instead of a move and a standard.

Correct, that boulder makes the battle more exciting. Because it will roll around again.

Question 3: In the DMG, Area 5 (p218)
How/why is there a white dragon squeezed in this room with only an exit made for a medium-sized creature

Remember, that is not the only entrance.

Remember the DMG says, there is another exit leading down (you have to make rest of adventure yourself if you want).
So it is assumed that the Dragon goes out that way (where it leads and how far before it goes up... who knows)

 

[Kaledor]

The Dart Trap is listed as making an immediate interrupt attack.
This would imply that the trap only gets to make ONE attack each round, so once trap #2 has fired in the round, all other #2 trigger squares are free and safe. BUT the trap isn't listed with an Initiative Roll, which implies to me that it does really "take a turn"... So why is this an interrupt and not an Opportunity Attack (like the spear gauntlet trap on p87)?? Or perhaps a Free Action so that a character could get hit multiple times if they passed through multiple triggers (but that would probably make it too powerful).

Alright last weekend I ran this encounter and noticed a little trap-wierdness.
I ended up running the trap as an Opportunity Attack rather than an Interrupt. That seemed to work okay. But then we found our cleric basically taken out of the combat for the entire scene:
The Dart Trap says that it immoblizes until the "End of the player's NEXT turn"

Player A, walks into the square and gets hit by the Dart. He is immoblized. He stops movement (he can still use other actions, like his standard... he just can't move without teleport of forced movement).
On Player A's next turn, he has to begin his turn in that target square, so of course the Dart trap goes off. If it hits him, not only can he not move this turn, but he's also immoble till the END OF HIS NEXT TURN.
So, turn 3 for Player A, the Dart goes off again (he hasn't moved, he's still on the target square). If it misses he still has to WAIT till next turn to move.
Along comes turn four for Player A. The trap will go off yet again. He has to pray that it misses in order to get to move this turn. If it hits, he's stuck basically for two more turns!


Am I missing something in this whole scene?
It seems like it is really hard to get away from the trap. The END of NEXT turn really means you're losing two turns of movement if you get hit with it on the beginning of your turn.

Thoughts?

 

[Charwoman Gene]

What';s witht the perpetual; motion boulder anyway...

 

[Kaledor]

What';s witht the perpetual; motion boulder anyway...

I laughed at that concept too!
I've changed it to a magical trap that uses a skill challenge to deactivate (using Arcana, Thievery, Dungineering, Insight, and Perception). It was a nice way to work a skill challenge into the introductory dungeon, plus it got around the idea that this boulder kept going, and going, and going, and...

 

[bganon]

Alright last weekend I ran this encounter and noticed a little trap-wierdness.
I ended up running the trap as an Opportunity Attack rather than an Interrupt. That seemed to work okay. But then we found our cleric basically taken out of the combat for the entire scene:
The Dart Trap says that it immoblizes until the "End of the player's NEXT turn"

[...]

Am I missing something in this whole scene?
It seems like it is really hard to get away from the trap. The END of NEXT turn really means you're losing two turns of movement if you get hit with it on the beginning of your turn.

Thoughts?

My thought is that this is why the trap is written as an immediate interrupt and not an opportunity attack. Because, yes, it can effectively take out a character for the encounter, and if you let it attack as an opportunity action then each dart trap can take out as many characters as it has trigger squares. Which is pretty powerful. If it really is an immediate action instead, each trap can basically only take out one character.

Also, disabling a trigger stone is "only" DC 20, so if you really needed to unstick the cleric it shouldn't have been too hard for someone trained in Thievery. That's the point of the trap, really; the damage is fairly small but the immobilization forces you to decide whether the Rogue should kill the kobolds first or try to disable the trap.

 

[Kaledor]

My thought is that this is why the trap is written as an immediate interrupt and not an opportunity attack. Because, yes, it can effectively take out a character for the encounter, and if you let it attack as an opportunity action then each dart trap can take out as many characters as it has trigger squares. Which is pretty powerful. If it really is an immediate action instead, each trap can basically only take out one character.

But that goes back to my original post. The trap isn't listed as having an Initiative Score, so does it really "take a turn"? And if it doesn't than how do you know when it has used its ONE Interrupt? Does it just reset at the top of the initiative? (It ended up only targeting one character per trap so it really didn't impact whether it was Opportunity or Interrupt) Most of the players ended up staying on the enterrance side of the trap and range attacked to avoid the issue.

Also, disabling a trigger stone is "only" DC 20, so if you really needed to unstick the cleric it shouldn't have been too hard for someone trained in Thievery. That's the point of the trap, really; the damage is fairly small but the immobilization forces you to decide whether the Rogue should kill the kobolds first or try to disable the trap.

Yeah Our party's thievery skill person (Warlock) forgot that they had theivery as a skill and it took a bit of reminding part way through the fight. In the end that's how we got the cleric off the stinkin thing!

 

[Ahrimon]

I ran it as the first person who set it off set the initiative on it. If that person managed to get off the trigger before thier turn came around again then the trap "reset" on thier turn. Sort of a permanent delayed action to where it would always change "reset initiative" to the next person to set it off.

 

[On Puget Sound]

I ran the dart traps as OAs. We did in fact get someone stuck on a trigger square for quite a while, till another character knocked him off of it with an Athletics check. Lacking any thievery skill, the cleric stood in front of the statue, shield up and with readied action. When the visor opened, she stuck her hammer in to block the darts and left it wedged there, triggering the mechanism to fire continuously into the hammer head til it ran out of darts.

Group two, a week later, had someone who could actually spot the trigger squares, so they had quite a bit less trouble with it.

 

[MarkB]

I ran the dart traps as OAs. We did in fact get someone stuck on a trigger square for quite a while, till another character knocked him off of it with an Athletics check. Lacking any thievery skill, the cleric stood in front of the statue, shield up and with readied action. When the visor opened, she stuck her hammer in to block the darts and left it wedged there, triggering the mechanism to fire continuously into the hammer head til it ran out of darts.

By any reasonably strict reading of the rules, this is the sort of thing you accomplish as a result of a successful Thievery check. Saying "oh, I can't use Thievery to disable it, so I'll just wedge something into the mechanism" is like saying "I'm not trained in Perception, so I'll just look and listen harder to make up for it".