D&D 5E Quests From The Infinite Staircase

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

But they have been assigned Alognment, etc. As @Henadic Theologian pointed out back in 2022, that cna be potentially very insulting.

The current policy makes a lot of sense to me, and I don't think the use of real world religions in earlier editions aged well. So it is simply interesting to see how theybare handling thwt in more recent products like thus or Planescape.

And one of the things I've suggested is to no longer give deities alignment in the vast majority of cases, which would solve that issue handily and create room for more nuanced divine characterizations beyond "Well, it says they're LG, so I guess they'd do X."

But again, I've got zero pull over what WotC chooses to do on anything. And it's easier to just throw IRL gods in the proverbial bin than put in the time and effort to actually talk about them in any meaningful and nuanced way.

 

[Parmandur]

And one of the things I've suggested is to no longer give deities alignment in the vast majority of cases, which would solve that issue handily and create room for more nuanced divine characterizations beyond "Well, it says they're LG, so I guess they'd do X."

But again, I've got zero pull over what WotC chooses to do on anything. And it's easier to just throw IRL gods in the proverbial bin than put in the time and effort to actually talk about them in any meaningful and nuanced way.

I'm honestly kind of shocked in hindsight that thus transition didn't happen way earlier.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

But they have been assigned Alognment, etc. As @Henadic Theologian pointed out back in 2022, that cna be potentially very insulting.

The current policy makes a lot of sense to me, and I don't think the use of real world religions in earlier editions aged well. So it is simply interesting to see how theybare handling thwt in more recent products like thus or Planescape.

Your over stating my point back then, I wasn't offended, it wasn't insulting, I just didn't think CE fit the mythology perfectly, but I recognize the complexity of the mythology and that Hecate does have alot of dark imagery so it's fine, just a bit of a missed opportunity. Honestly not listing alignment for Gods, real or imagined works better anyways because it opens up interesting opportunities intriguing heresies, like a CG Gnostic interruption of Shar, like is she really evil or does she really just want to liberate folks from the source of suffering which is matter to experience perfect union and peace in Henosis with Shar. Any "evil" she does is in service to a higher good.

I keep pointing out they've set before themselves a fools errand, mythology from religions is just too baked into D&D so this just comes off sloppy and half arsed, a job the Pagan community never asked them to do in the first place. I mean I know plenty of pagans who are huge fans of Disney's Hecules, even though it takes alot of liberties with Greek Mythology, I mean alot. And a new live action version is coming.

And of God of War series which is the most offensive main stream media towards the Gods IMHO, and no boycott or pagan protest at all.

What is WotC going to do next year when they do the MtG Marvel set, just skip Thor? Have Disney lose their **** or just call him Generic God of Thunder RR3 Legendary Creature Alien God?, no their sometimes rule will go right out the windows, because it'll interfere in their profit making just like it did with Hades, Arheron, Tartus, Olympus, Elysium, etc..., there is zero logic consistancy to any of it. What a mess. They need better, smarter, and wiser sensitivity readers, because I don't think the last ones they hired are very good at their job.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Oh and their is also an Egyptian God called Saa, so renaming the dead Pharoh Amun Sa did nothing, it's just embarrassing. Honestly I'm thinking of putting together a petition against WotC still doing this nonsense. They are wrecking lore for nothing and in a way that makes them more offensive not less.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Oh and their is also an Egyptian God called Saa, so renaming the dead Pharoh Amun Sa did nothing, it's just embarrassing. Honestly I'm thinking of putting together a petition against WotC still doing this nonsense. They are wrecking lore for nothing and in a way that makes them more offensive not less.

Both Saa* and Amun are common Egyptian name elements, represented by hieroglyphs. So it's not just gods who use those name elements. As in Tut-Ankh-Amun for example. The original Amun merged with the Sun god to become Amun-Ra(Re*). Now, the important thing is not who worships those gods - no one does - the important thing is they belong to a culture that was raided - within living memory (1956) - by an imperial power. It the same as the "Elgin marbles". It doesn't matter what's depicted on the Parthenon Frieze, what matters is they are stolen cultural artefacts. As long as they remain stolen they exert the dominance of one culture over another.

As for lore, Pharaoh is a setting agnostic adventure, it has no lore.


*The vowel sounds are lost, no one knows the original pronunciation.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Both Saa* and Amun are common Egyptian name elements, represented by hieroglyphs. So it's not just gods who use those name elements. As in Tut-Ankh-Amun for example. The original Amun merged with the Sun god to become Amun-Ra(Re*). Now, the important thing is not who worships those gods - no one does - the important thing is they belong to a culture that was raided - within living memory (1956) - by an imperial power. It the same as the "Elgin marbles". It doesn't matter what's depicted on the Parthenon Frieze, what matters is they are stolen cultural artefacts. As long as they remain stolen they exert the dominance of one culture over another.

As for lore, Pharaoh is a setting agnostic adventure, it has no lore.


*The vowel sounds are lost, no one knows the original pronunciation.

People still do in fact worship Amun-Ra. And none of that changes the fact that Amun and Saa are God names, even if some contexts the names can me other things. For the record I have no problem with using the name Amun Sa or Amun Ra, I object to the absurd, sloppy attempt at erasure that breaks lore and does not achieve its goals.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

People still do in fact worship Amun-Ra. And none of that changes the fact that Amun and Saa are God names, even if some contexts the names can me other things. For the record I have no problem with using the name Amun Sa or Amun Ra, I object to the absurd, sloppy attempt at erasure that breaks lore and does not achieve its goals.

A few people follow a god they call Amun-Ra - this is also cultural stealing, since these people are not Ancient Egyptians. This sort of shenanigans was very popular for a time in early 20th century Britain.

Sure it changes it. "Godwin" contains the word "God". That doesn't make it the name of a god. Amun-Ra is the name of a god. Amun is the name of a god. Saa is the name of a god. Amun-Sa is NOT the name of a god.

And no "lore" is being broken, this adventure is NOT PART OF ANY SETTING. Therefore it does not affect the lore of any setting.

 

[Parmandur]

People still do in fact worship Amun-Ra. And none of that changes the fact that Amun and Saa are God names, even if some contexts the names can me other things. For the record I have no problem with using the name Amun Sa or Amun Ra, I object to the absurd, sloppy attempt at erasure that breaks lore and does not achieve its goals.

Their goals are to not offend Egyptians, amd to create a welcoming environment for new players of all minds. I see no reason to believe that they are failing at that goal.

Lore is fungible and can be changed to create a better rhyme environment by WotC or DMs willy-nilly.

 

[Parmandur]

A few people follow a god they call Amun-Ra - this is also cultural stealing, since these people are not Ancient Egyptians. This sort of shenanigans was very popular for a time in early 20th century Britain.

Sure it changes it. "Godwin" contains the word "God". That doesn't make it the name of a god. Amun-Ra is the name of a god. Amun is the name of a god. Saa is the name of a god. Amun-Sa is NOT the name of a god.

And no "lore" is being broken, this adventure is NOT PART OF ANY SETTING. Therefore it does not affect the lore of any setting.

Out of curiosity, ancestry I believe you are familiar with the original, are there any elements of the original that might bear cha ginger? I would be curious to compare what they did if so.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Out of curiosity, ancestry I believe you are familiar with the original, are there any elements of the original that might bear cha ginger? I would be curious to compare what they did if so.

I don’t recall all the details, but I certainly had all three original modules. As you know, they were setting agnostic, even though Greyhawk was the official setting at the time, it had no Greyhawk connections. The name of the eponymous Pharaoh was Amun-Ra (but not the god, I don’t know why they didn’t go with a different name) I seem to recall some dervishes and similar mildly racist caricatures, but they may have been in Oasis. Like Strahd, it was mostly bsed on Hammer Horror movies. The villainous high priest (aren’t they always) was immortal because his heart was in a Canopic jar. There was a lot of confusion between Egyptian and Persian tropes. There was a wilderness hexcrawl, including overlevelled purple worms, because Dune. The sequels hung on one of the wilderness encounters and assumed the PCs had freed an evil Efreeti Lord.