D&D 5E Racial Min/Maxes on Ability Scores?

[Pauln6]

I think giving each race a couple of caps at 20 and everything else at 18 would cause no issues. Racial minimums are probably moot since penalties for low stats are so debilitating you will rarely see anything below 8 and you can explain away low stats as the consequence of injury, trauma, childhood disease etc.

 

[Coroc]

stating this kind of percentage increase/decrease is kind of wrong. Yes +1 added to +4 is a 25% increase, but it depends on the average target number or DC.

if in 5E attack roll on average hits 60% of the time then that +1 increase is worth 8,3%

but if attack hits on average 40% of the time then that +1 increase is worth 12,5%

Yes you are right, when you do a more precise analysis, still maximum from attributes and assuming equipment is e.g. (fighter) about +5 (Str20) +4 (prof level 10) (+2 magic weapon) which results in +11. So you add +1 from another ASI by race it is about 10 % increase.

Now compare with 3e: You get BAB +10 +5 (Str 20) and +4 from weapon +1 (from specialization) so we are rather at +20 with ACs to hit being slightly higher eventually, but another +1 from racial ASI is only 5% else.

So the influence in 5e is far greater than you might think. It is not one +1 boon carelessly given out to early by the DM which unbalances the 5e game, it is all the +1s which sum up in the end, in the case of armor (being eventually partially dependent on Dex) it is worse even.

 

[DammitVictor]

OTHER: Remove maximum ability scores entirely. Separate from anything to do with differentiating nonhuman races, having an ability score cap that lucky characters might hit with their 4th level ASI is incomprehensible.

Minimum abilities for races might make sense, but they are a practical non-starter. Even if we wanted to stop people from "playing against type", the racial minimums aren't ever going to be much higher than the minimum results of the default point-buy system. Forcing Elves to spend 1 point to raise their DEX from an 8 to a 9... isn't worth the extra effort of writing the rules.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If races had ability minimums, maximums and starting score maximums I'd be fine with getting rid of racial ability score bonuses. Then everyone could use point buy and get what they pay for and the limits would take care of protecting verisimilitude and niches of the races. It probably would be fairer than the current system, as both an elf and a dwarf with dex 14 paid the same amount of points for it, even if the elf had an option to raise it even further (for extra cost.)

 

[TwoSix]

It’s not as major as it looks. The math is very transparent. You could literally get rid of ability scores, and replace them with “Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary, Competence”, and change nothing else about the system. It’d make for a long document, but the work wouldn’t be complex, mostly just repetitive and time intensive.

Another option would be to let each character choose their primary ability score from the normal 6, with the note that physical attack score and Spellcasting score can not be the same, unless a feature allows it (ie, anyone but Hexblades pretty much still has two “main” stats).
This could either be restricted to physical stuff requiring a physical score and magic stuff requiring a mental score, or not, at a group’s preference. I’m fine with Strength wizards and Con sorcerers and Cha fighters, others won’t be.

I absolutely will not be hashing out details of either idea in this thread, so please don’t try to pick them apart. The point is simply that ability scores changing doesn’t require an overhaul of every system, which is what I imagine when someone talks about redesigning completely, or whatever the exact phrase was.

Yea, I saw a homebrew document that did exactly that. It was all of 4 pages, and that included example characters. It's a major hack, conceptually, but a simple one to implement.

 

[Helldritch]

I have voted four. Only races with +2 to a stat could be allowed to go up to 20. I'd redesign the gauntlet of ogre power to give 20 strength, making it a relevant item in the game again.

 

[Pauln6]

I have voted four. Only races with +2 to a stat could be allowed to go up to 20. I'd redesign the gauntlet of ogre power to give 20 strength, making it a relevant item in the game again.

I redesigned the gauntlets to give +2 strength capped at 20 but the wearer is treated as a large creature for the purposes of carrying and opposed checks. This keeps a lid in it, and gives high strength characters some useful benefits to shoves etc.

Can do the same with giant strength but +4 and huge. Gives a nice combo for Tavern brawlers who can throw huge items with proficiency.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I redesigned the gauntlets to give +2 strength capped at 20 but the wearer is treated as a large creature for the purposes of carrying and opposed checks. This keeps a lid in it, and gives high strength characters some useful benefits to shoves etc.

Can do the same with giant strength but +4 and huge. Gives a nice combo for Tavern brawlers who can throw huge items with proficiency.

That is a great improvement. I really don't think that the official item is a good idea at all. An item shouldn't let you completely bypass an entire ability score.

 

[Pauln6]

That is a great improvement. I really don't think that the official item is a good idea at all. An item shouldn't let you completely bypass an entire ability score.

It was more to try and keep a lid on giant strength. A pc with Str 20 would end up with a max of Str24 if they have one of the more powerful belts. I suppose you could increase the range they can throw stuff by an additional 10'/20' as the belts move up the chain?

 

[jmartkdr2]

It’s not as major as it looks. The math is very transparent. You could literally get rid of ability scores, and replace them with “Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary, Competence”, and change nothing else about the system. It’d make for a long document, but the work wouldn’t be complex, mostly just repetitive and time intensive.

Another option would be to let each character choose their primary ability score from the normal 6, with the note that physical attack score and Spellcasting score can not be the same, unless a feature allows it (ie, anyone but Hexblades pretty much still has two “main” stats).
This could either be restricted to physical stuff requiring a physical score and magic stuff requiring a mental score, or not, at a group’s preference. I’m fine with Strength wizards and Con sorcerers and Cha fighters, others won’t be.

I absolutely will not be hashing out details of either idea in this thread, so please don’t try to pick them apart. The point is simply that ability scores changing doesn’t require an overhaul of every system, which is what I imagine when someone talks about redesigning completely, or whatever the exact phrase was.

Heck, if it weren't for saving throws you could just dump ability scores entirely and increase proficiency mods to compensate. Re-work a double handful of class features and you're good to go.