Racial Tiers

[Doctor Proctor]

I find that parties determined to get enemies in handy bundles for area effect spells can find ways of doing so in this push-me/pull-you/slide-this heavy world we call 4th edition.

Yeah, a couple well placed Tides of Iron can do wonders. Plus, since Dragonbreath is a minor, I can push an enemy into position and then use it on the same turn. Also, if the enemies aren't all bunched together, and are instead very spread out, then they're not flanking me.

The utility of the power isn't always represented in pure damage. Like Fighter OA's, just acting as a deterrent can sometimes be very powerful.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Come to think of it, why is Dwarf on the top? There are no classes in the game at all that go Wis/Con as both good for it except fighters, and that's two completely disparate builds.

As well, having a racial that's based on one of the attributes the class gives you is a feature, not a bug. Why does that cause Tiefling to plummet more than Dragonborn?

And if Drow are narrow for one class, and halfings are narrow for one single build of one class (Cha-Rogues), how does Half-elf get rated lower when they are good for -every- build of a single class, and have access to the best feat in the game?

Dwarves--Wisdom and Constitution are generally the most universal tertiary stats, as Con modifies HP and surges while Wisdom boasts the largest array of skills based on it. They do well with Barbarian, Cleric(+Wis, and Con isn't a waste), Fighter, Paladin(Con/Wis are both important), Ranger(Con/Wis is solid on a TWF), Warlock(Infernal who actually dumps Cha), Wizard(Staff/Orb), and even Swordmage(16Con, 18Int, 13 Wis). Artificers are also Con/Int. The only two classes they match up badly with are Rogue and Warlord, and even then its not horrendous. Also, its not just racial abilities, but also feats. Dwarven Weapon Training and Paragon Dwarven Durability are very good feats, not to mention FRPG's amazing Shield the Fallen.

Dragonborn vs. Tiefling--Charisma is a dumpstat for a lot of classes/builds, while Con is useful to important for most classes and is almost never dumped.

Drow and Halflings are more versatile then you think. Halflings are deceptively fantastic at the Warlock class, and are surprisingly solid Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, and Warlords. Drow, also specialized in Rogue, benefit from a stronger than normal feat selection, and do well at a lot of the same classes, though if I have misplaced any race on this list it would be Drow. Half Elves suffer due to Dilettante, which while supremely versatile, lacks the oomph of other races' powers, they don't really get anything else purely from their race, and while they have a great feat selection, have few classes they do extremely well.

 

[Ibixat]

I find that Dragon Breath(and other blast powers) are far less potent against a DM who works hard at avoiding the monsters lining up all nice for area powers. A DM like me.

The question there becomes are you playing your monsters smarter than they really are. Obviously the minions lined up against your party's dragonborn have never fought one like this before, or they wouldn't be here fighting now. And if they have fought dragonborn before, the breath obviously shouldn't scare them that much since they survived it then why worry now. Only fairly intelligent monsters/npc's should keep optimal anti-enlarged dragonbreath spacing, most things we fight are just not that smart.

 

[Gimpoloshe]

IMHO, being able to use second wind as a minor action is a very powerful ability in favor of dwarven fighters. You don't lose your CC and are less dependant on leaders heals, which increases your durability by a good portion.

 

[DracoSuave]

I happen to feel you're over-valuing constitution. It's -handy- and some builds love it, but it's not as universally necessary as it once was.

In terms of offense, however, Charisma tends to get used more than Constitution or Wisdom.

And Tieflings are a lot better a race than people give them credit for. +1 to half of all their attacks, some decent feats with the right build, and an encounter ability that makes them less likely to get smacked about.

That said, it'll be interesting to see what PHB2 brings. Dragonborn Thaneborn Barbarian is going to be high high high on everyone's list.

 

[Minigiant]

Come to think of it, why is Dwarf on the top? There are no classes in the game at all that go Wis/Con as both good for it except fighters, and that's two completely disparate builds.

As well, having a racial that's based on one of the attributes the class gives you is a feature, not a bug. Why does that cause Tiefling to plummet more than Dragonborn?

And if Drow are narrow for one class, and halfings are narrow for one single build of one class (Cha-Rogues), how does Half-elf get rated lower when they are good for -every- build of a single class, and have access to the best feat in the game?

Con/Wis is a secondary attribute for almost all classes plus minor action surge.

Tiefling racial's narrow targeting and low bonus is just weak and last too short a time. They are extremely specialized to use.

Half-elf isn't good with every build. They shine when you abuse powers you class shouldn't have and usually require actual multivlassing to be strong. They are specialized.


The first tier should be good at all classes. The next tier good at most classes. The next rely on powerful combos. And the last are extreme specialists.

 

[DracoSuave]

Tiefling racial's narrow targeting and low bonus is just weak and last too short a time. They are extremely specialized to use.

The tiefling +1 to hit comes up -extremely- often. If you've got a plethora of fights where enemies are being dropped in a singular hit, either you're fighting a crapton of minions, or the DM needs to ramp up the difficulty. I don't find this ability narrow at all, I see it used in every encounter I run. We've got a tiefling faelock and a tiefling taclord and they've got no problem using this 'narrow' ability.

The encounter might not be OMG great, but that's because Bloodhunt is -that damn good.- If it's only usable for a short time, chances are it's because it's -doing its job.-

I don't mind that one bit.

 

[Ibixat]

So lets call these tiers what they REALLY are, Versatility tiers... NOT power tiers. Every race is great at something, not all races are great at a lot of somethings. The more classes a Race can be very good at would be it's versatility, not it's power.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

So lets call these tiers what they REALLY are, Versatility tiers... NOT power tiers. Every race is great at something, not all races are great at a lot of somethings. The more classes a Race can be very good at would be it's versatility, not it's power.

Yeah, I think that's about right. The Dwarf might have stat bonuses that are good for secondary/tertiary stats, but many others have stat bonuses that are good for primary stats. So the Dwarf is versatile, but not necessarily more powerful than something like a Dragonborn, which is the only PC race with a bonus to Strength. Most of the other races have overlapping bonuses, like Wis in the Dwarf and Elves, or Intelligence in the Eladrin and Tieflings, or Dexterity in the Elves and Eladrin.

That being said, it's all academic anyway because ranking races is largely a subjective exercise. I really like the Dragonborn because I'm playing a Fighter and I was considering a Str/Cha Paladin. Dragonborn's synergize well with both classes. Others like Dwarves because of their abilities as Fighters or their Wis synergy with the Cleric.

 

[DracoSuave]

Genesi have Strength as well, and Intellegence is about as useful as Charisma. And they can have Human perserverance for free....