Racially diverse artwork in D&D...does it influence you?

[eyebeams]

But east-Asians do better than Europeans, and Europeans better than others, on average. The argument is that north-east-Asians have the highest IQ due to selective pressure in an Ice Age high latitude arctic environment, Europeans next highest due to Ice Age sub-arctic arboreal environment, etc. Like I said, I'm unconvinced as I don't think the evidence is strong for all significant human evolution being back in the Ice Age.

Your sources are?

If it's Phillipe Rushton or anyone else with Pioneer Fund backing, you've essentially been duped by racists -- the Pioneer Fund is basically a well-heeled hate group. Since this is basically where these assertions come from, the chances are high that you've made this mistake.

 

[eyebeams]

Hmm, check out OGL Conan. As I recall the different human races & ethnicities do get approximately a paragraph each. Cimmerians get an INT penalty, which may be Mongoose Ltd's prejudice against the Irish or Welsh (j/k).

I'd say it's non-representative of Howard, given that Conan is a smart guy. Also, Mongoose had published racist trash before (The B5 Earthforce book), so there's a precedent for similarly stupid publications.

 

[Set]

Honestly, that's the whole lousy point of Starship Troopers. Its an extended effort by an author with a white, violent-libertarian readership to make them sympathize and embrace a character who embodies the whole of their fantasies, and then to add far, far into the text that the character wasn't white.

Only to have him played by Caspar van Diem, sadly, and not a Filipino...

Thankfully, we've got shows like Battlestar Galactica that are willing to recast roles to add some diversity. Having the entire sci-fi genre be a 'white man's club' is old. I imagine it won't be too long before we have a black (or female) Doctor Who...

 

[S'mon]

Your sources are?

If it's Phillipe Rushton or anyone else with Pioneer Fund backing, you've essentially been duped by racists -- the Pioneer Fund is basically a well-heeled hate group. Since this is basically where these assertions come from, the chances are high that you've made this mistake.

You've made a political statement which I don't think it's possible to discuss within the rules of ENW.

 

[S'mon]

I'd say it's non-representative of Howard, given that Conan is a smart guy. Also, Mongoose had published racist trash before (The B5 Earthforce book), so there's a precedent for similarly stupid publications.

I agree it's non-representative of Howard; although Conan is not supposed to be a typical Cimmerian, there's no indication they're less intelligent than everyone else. I don't know anything about the B5 Earthforce book.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I was talking about the default quasi-European quasi-medieval implied setting of default D&D

Why does "quasi-medieval" equal "white-skinned humans", though?

Is it because you don't immediately imagine dark-skinned humans building European-style castles, or because you can't imagine that happening?

There is absolutely nothing that says a quasi-medieval European-like society could not have been produced in a fantasy setting by a human population which is not of a single ethnicity. Nothing!

 

[S'mon]

Why does "quasi-medieval" equal "white-skinned humans", though?

Is it because you don't immediately imagine dark-skinned humans building European-style castles, or because you can't imagine that happening?

There is absolutely nothing that says a quasi-medieval European-like society could not have been produced in a fantasy setting by a human population which is not of a single ethnicity. Nothing!

OK... I think I was talking about culture not race but now you've got me confused.

I'll take a shot:

Quasi-medieval - "medieval" refers to the European middle ages, medieval European humans were white, ergo the default for quasi-medieval humans in RPGs is that they're white.

But I completely agree that this does not have to be the case in any particular setting. My favourite published setting is the Wilderlands of High Fantasy, which is a D&D setting, a mix of medieval and classical culture, with umpteen different human ethnicities. Like I said upthread, I thought Midnight was great. "Default" =/= "only allowed option".

 

[mmadsen]

Why does "quasi-medieval" equal "white-skinned humans", though?

Quasi-medieval equals white-skinned humans because real medieval equals white-skinned humans. Can we diverge from reality for our fantasy world? Of course, but then those differences become the focus of our work.

There is absolutely nothing that says a quasi-medieval European-like society could not have been produced in a fantasy setting by a human population which is not of a single ethnicity. Nothing!

It would feel extremely forced to have a rainbow coalition of medieval peasants. It would be quite jarring to have a world resemble medieval England only populated by people from all over the real world. It would demand attention and explanation. How did members of all these different races travel to this locale? Who let them have land? If they get along so well, why are they still separate races?

Are those questions impossible to answer? I suppose not, but they do demand attention and explanation.

 

[Barastrondo]

It would be quite jarring to have a world resemble medieval England only populated by people from all over the real world.

Yet so many D&D worlds don't really resemble medieval England. Well, they do in a very handwavey "they have things that resemble medieval England" way, but just as much they look like the American frontier, with "gunfighters, wild Indians, saloons and wooden stockades" crossed out and "adventurers, humanoids, taverns and stone keeps" penciled in. (And sometimes the wooden stockades are left intact, along with mining towns and other various Western tropes.) In much the same way that samurai films and Westerns are often so close that you can take one and convert into the other almost whole cloth, the sort of fantasy that is D&D is very often the kind of American Western story with a new change of trappings. And when you look at actual Westerns, nobody really bats an eye at black, Hispanic, American Indian or Asian characters showing up.

When people use "medieval" to describe anything about D&D other than the general tech level, I think that again brings in the observer talking about what he is or isn't interested in. It's a generally medieval technology, yeah — but I don't think I've seen very many "medieval" games in actual play. They're thematic hodgepodges — they work well for all that, like many a genre fusion does, but their inspirations are all over the map.

 

[mmadsen]

And when you look at actual Westerns, nobody really bats an eye at black, Hispanic, American Indian or Asian characters showing up.

That's because the Old West actually had Black, Hispanic, American Indian, and Chinese characters showing up.

If you make a samurai movie in the style of a western, you don't throw in Black, Hispanic, American Indian, or even Chinese characters.