D&D 5E Rage of Demons more details.

[Staffan]

2E deities had stats or at least their avatars did, just look in the Faiths & Avatars book. It lists their ability scores, hit points, magic resistance, etc... great book too, btw.

The stats in Faiths & Avatars and, before that, Legends & Lore were explicitly for the avatars of the gods - tiny portions of divine power in (usually) humanoid form. How difficult an avatar would be to replace depended on the deity's power level - a greater god could have 10 avatars at once, and making a new one took a day, whereas a demigod could only have one avatar and needed a whole year to make another.

However, 2e was a bit split on the issue. On one hand, it said "Gods are beyond stats", but then it went on to say describe specific abilities gods of various tiers had. For example, an intermediate god would be immune to a non-magical or +1 weapon - but if they were beyond stats, why would they need such an immunity?

 

[Prism]

And this is something I am highly against.

Although I am all for fighting gods and demons in D&D I do think it would be nice to have an adventure released that didn't involve that.

 

[graves3141]

Nope.
Which was something completely different. Fighting an avatar is like smashin the screen through which I am giving you a video call while I am sitting on the other site of the atlantic and are simultaneously having 3 other video calls.

F&A, page 17: "When powers have vital business upon the Prime Material Plane, they mustsend avatars to act for them. An avatar is simply a manifestation of a deityupon the Prime Material Plane. This manifestation is not nearly as powerful as a power and is merely a projection of a deity’s power to the Prime Material Plane. An almost infinitely vast gulf of power lies between the god and the avatar. The avatar embodies just a small portion of the god’s power."

F&A, page 15: "No statistics for the powers and abilities of true deities are listed anywherein this book. The power of deities is impossible to quantify. Statistics quite simply become meaningless when dealing with the powers of the Realms."

I love you.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Although I am all for fighting gods and demons in D&D I do think it would be nice to have an adventure released that didn't involve that.

I just can't imagine a true deity being hit by swords and spells. I mean these are beings who have created the world, magic, concepts, and many many other things. I think true deities should be beyond mortal physical boundaries.

 

[graves3141]

I just can't imagine a true deity being hit by swords and spells. I mean these are beings who have created the world, magic, concepts, and many many other things. I think true deities should be beyond mortal physical boundaries.

Agreed.

 

[Prism]

I just can't imagine a true deity being hit by swords and spells. I mean these are beings who have created the world, magic, concepts, and many many other things. I think true deities should be beyond mortal physical boundaries.

Depends on the game you want to play and the world you play in. In your world you can of course have it like that but in Forgotten Realms that's not how it is.

You have several gods that were mortal and have only been gods for a few hundred years - Mystra, Bane, Cyric, Bhaal, Kelemvor.....

You have gods that appear in the Realms - Tiamat, most of the Mulhorand pantheon

You have gods fighting over mortals in novels - Lolth and Mielikki over Drizzt, Shaar and Mask in the Erevis Cale series

These gods hardly act like your creators of worlds... more like very powerful children. Of course you can ignore all of those stories and everything is just fine. It is worth noting however, in D&D terms, these are for the most part very high level situations that involve high level characters

 

[Corpsetaker]

Depends on the game you want to play and the world you play in. In your world you can of course have it like that but in Forgotten Realms that's not how it is.

You have several gods that were mortal and have only been gods for a few hundred years - Mystra, Bane, Cyric, Bhaal, Kelemvor.....

You have gods that appear in the Realms - Tiamat, most of the Mulhorand pantheon

You have gods fighting over mortals in novels - Lolth and Mielikki over Drizzt, Shaar and Mask in the Erevis Cale series

These gods hardly act like your creators of worlds... more like very powerful children. Of course you can ignore all of those stories and everything is just fine. It is worth noting however, in D&D terms, these are for the most part very high level situations that involve high level characters

Actually that's how the Forgotten Realms is. The only reason those Gods died was because Ao the over god forced them into mortal form where they were vulnerable. During the time of Netheril Mystryl sacrificed herself in order to save the Weave and Moander was killed by Finder Wyvenspur because of special circumstances but other than that only gods can kill each other. Gods like Shar do not fully manifest in the Prime Material plane.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

According to the DMG. Lesser Gods can be found in their domains in the Outer Planes and in turn can be fought and defeated. Greater Gods can't be fought or interacted with in the flesh, but can create avatars that are similar in power to Lesser Gods that can be.

Here the exact quote.

Greater deities are beyond mortal understanding. They can't be summoned, and they are almost always removed from direct involvement in mortal affairs. On rare occasions they manifest avatars similar to lesser deities, but slaying a greater god's avatar has no effect on the god itself.
Lesser deities are embodied somewhere in the planes. Some lesser deities live in the Material Plane, as does the unicorn-goddess Lurue of the Forgotten Realms and the titanic shark-god Sekolah revered by the sahuagin. Others live on the Outer Planes, as Lolth does in the Abyss and Tiamat in Hell. Such deities can be encountered by mortals.

 

[MerricB]

Although I am all for fighting gods and demons in D&D I do think it would be nice to have an adventure released that didn't involve that.

Strictly speaking, Rise of Tiamat only has you fighting a god if you *fail* in your quest.

And the Princes of Elemental Evil are really big Elementals, not gods...

 

[SkidAce]

I just can't imagine a true deity being hit by swords and spells. I mean these are beings who have created the world, magic, concepts, and many many other things. I think true deities should be beyond mortal physical boundaries.

I use more of a Michael Moorcock view of deities.

They get power from worshipers, etc, but didn't create the universe or worlds. A few "creator" deities may have made a unique race. They are gods, but not COSMIC GODS...

And there are a lot of them.

I do have five COSMIC GODS who created ALL, but they don't intervene or hang out on the material. Those are the ones that its impossible to kill, above swords etc.

The "small gods" still have avatars, are difficult to kill, but could theoretically be slain by something else of godlike power or artifact. (P.S. hence why Ma Yuan is the killer of the gods, he's got an amulet, see 1st edition D&D)