Raise Dead: A nice big bone to the simulationists

[zoroaster100]

I don't know if it is the major consideration for the design decisions, or even a factor in those decisions, but the result of the 4E changes which make flying, invisibility, etc. less accessible to low level characters does absolutely help me in creating a world that is more in line with my vision for a fantasy roleplaying game.

 

[DandD]

However, the implied setting and world-building stuff is all about really fantastical stuff and extravagant landscapes, so yeah, even if the player characters won't get fly, infinite water and teleportation at low levels, doesn't mean that the world won't still have that stuff either. The Implied "Points of Light"-setting (or more precisely, concept) is about a world where the last big civilisation just collapsed, and now all the marvels and high magic technology stuff lies in ruins and everybody has to fend for itself.

Aside from that, Raise Dead still sucks in every edition of D&D.

 

[bramadan]

I can't say that I've seen a single thing about 4e that makes me think that. I simply see no sign that making the game have greater realism or even high fantasy versimlitude was even a consideration in the design.

We must have bone with different aspects of DnD3 then.
To me, pushing magical flight and invisibility well into the paragon tier (from very low in DnD3) is just a thing to improve the verisimilitude. Likewise for the new philosophy around Raise Dead. I have hope that charm and other mind-control effects will be likewise toned down and pushed to higher levels (at least in the core). Between those three, and maybe scrying most of my main "atmosphere" gripes are addressed.

 

[Fobok]

We must have bone with different aspects of DnD3 then.
To me, pushing magical flight and invisibility well into the paragon tier (from very low in DnD3) is just a thing to improve the verisimilitude. Likewise for the new philosophy around Raise Dead. I have hope that charm and other mind-control effects will be likewise toned down and pushed to higher levels (at least in the core). Between those three, and maybe scrying most of my main "atmosphere" gripes are addressed.

Races and Classes made a pretty good case that they were toned down in core, at least... they wanted psionics to specialize in that kind of effect, so toned it down on the Wizard spell list.

 

[Warbringer]

Yes, any sort of matter creation magic can be problimatic if you aren't careful.

But I think you over estimate the value of such an item to anyone that isn't a desert dweller

And I think you underestimate the importance of clean water in a medieval situation were sanitry conditions kill more people than all other conditions combined. Even something as simple as cleaning a wound or bathing a baby.

 

[Warbringer]

I'm a historical military buff, so fireball's presense causes me more psychological grief than 'raise dead'.

I've always played, and believed, that fantasy warfare has far more in common with mid World War I military tactics than anything from the late medieval/ren. periods.

All that flying and gas and fire and mass damage....

trench warfare baby is the stalemate of any great fanatsy war

 

[Celebrim]

And I think you underestimate the importance of clean water in a medieval situation were sanitry conditions kill more people than all other conditions combined. Even something as simple as cleaning a wound or bathing a baby.

And I think you underestimate the importance of the germ theory of disease.

 

[Celebrim]

I've always played, and believed, that fantasy warfare has far more in common with mid World War I military tactics than anything from the late medieval/ren. periods.

All that flying and gas and fire and mass damage....

trench warfare baby is the stalemate of any great fanatsy war

If there is one thing 30 years of dungeoneering ought to have taught us, it is that there is no such thing as a safe static position in fantasy warfare.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

It is funny actually that you mention this, once I am done with my Reality-Bending, Horror-Noir-Suspense Campaign. I plan on doing either a Egyptian/Romanesque Campaign or a Eberronesque Campaign World where trench warfare is common way of doing warfare.

They have trenches with wards and magic-shields over them, "firearms" that destroy wands to release a potent bolt of magic, reanimated animal corpses strapped to magically reinforced landships with more potent "firearms", etc.

 

[Aenghus]

A DM's feel for his game setting is not necessarily coloured by the ruleset he uses, as each DM approaches the rules in a different way. For those who do like the rules to support the way events in the setting unfold this is useful.

The attitudes of the players to the consistency of the setting are also an issue, and this rule can help in this regard as well, assuming it is presented in a constructive fashion.

Moving back to the idea of the bereaved NPC peasant whose wife has died, I would generally prefer a world where the possibility of actual resurrection never even occurs to him. He may implore the gods to bring her back, but doesn't expect that to happen.

In the light of the 4e resurrection rule I see the typical reaction being more like a third world peasant whose wife is sick and needs an organ transplant. Maybe expensive high-tech western medicine could save her but he doesn't know anyone who has been similarly saved personally, and neither does anyone in his village. Nor could his entire village afford the cost of either the transport or the treatment itself, and there is no guarantee that it would work.

The above analogy is of limited use, as for the fantasy peasant there is no tv, internet or phones, he's almost certainly illiterate and dependent on word of mouth and stories to learn anything.

Players and their PCs should be less blasé about resurrection magic in 4e, at low to mid levels, but some thought is still needed. Giving more conscientious PCs something substantive to say IC when bereaved NPCs beg them for aid is something that the DM should address when using this rule.