I can't say that system appeals to me at all. I think a cultural belief that the dead are where they most belong is a good start. Then perhaps when society is in dire straits, and only a certain hero can help, they might bring that person back. Or, perhaps it could be as a reward for a hero that died in a very noble fashion. Right away, though, you run up against the question of whether reversing death is considered ethical. Also, what would a deity's position on such things be? Pretty hard to say, but there is a fair chance they have some stake in life and death functioning is the accustomed manner.
Raise Dead Questions?
- Thread starter Aluvial
- Start date
Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
Keith, just how available do you think 500gp diamonds are?
Taking one part of the 'costs' of the spell and seperating it gives somewhat of a false view.
Let's look at all of the costs together. To cast raise dead, first of all you have to find a cleric of at least 9th level, which may or may not be easy, depending on campaign setting, location etc. The cleric must also agree to cast the spell, which he may not do on grounds of religion, background - a hundred reasons.
The body has to be whole. That is stated explicitly in the rules. A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be brought back with this spell. These are also potential problems (for example in S'mons games, intelligent enemies routinely hack off the heads of fallen foes to prevent use of this spell).
Then once you have you cleric, and your dead body which died less than 1day per caster level of the cleric, you still have to have a 500gp diamond. I refer you hear to threads about average income of a D&D person - 500gp is a lot of money unless you're an active adventurer. Most NPC's aren't going to waste their resources having a diamond sitting about when that could pay for so many other things.
And lastly, the subjects soul must be free and willing to return. Again, many possibilities.
So when you consider all the things that could stop the use of the spell, I don't think it's much of a problem. Also note another powerful 5th level spell - commune. This is the point at which the character gains the ability to speak directly with his God. Raising the dead under those limitations seems about balanced with that to me.
sorry to get all argumentative on you, but I think people treat this spell too lightly. It's much harder to get raised than you think.
Taking one part of the 'costs' of the spell and seperating it gives somewhat of a false view.
Let's look at all of the costs together. To cast raise dead, first of all you have to find a cleric of at least 9th level, which may or may not be easy, depending on campaign setting, location etc. The cleric must also agree to cast the spell, which he may not do on grounds of religion, background - a hundred reasons.
The body has to be whole. That is stated explicitly in the rules. A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be brought back with this spell. These are also potential problems (for example in S'mons games, intelligent enemies routinely hack off the heads of fallen foes to prevent use of this spell).
Then once you have you cleric, and your dead body which died less than 1day per caster level of the cleric, you still have to have a 500gp diamond. I refer you hear to threads about average income of a D&D person - 500gp is a lot of money unless you're an active adventurer. Most NPC's aren't going to waste their resources having a diamond sitting about when that could pay for so many other things.
And lastly, the subjects soul must be free and willing to return. Again, many possibilities.
So when you consider all the things that could stop the use of the spell, I don't think it's much of a problem. Also note another powerful 5th level spell - commune. This is the point at which the character gains the ability to speak directly with his God. Raising the dead under those limitations seems about balanced with that to me.
sorry to get all argumentative on you, but I think people treat this spell too lightly. It's much harder to get raised than you think.
I've never liked (or used) the resurrection spells as they stand in any edition of D&D. Everything may be nice and balanced, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.
My solution is to give the fate of the dead into the hands of whatever power ought to be governing them in the first place. Some other upstart god does not have the right to grant his worshippers power over life and death. I say if you want something from the grave, you have to give something to the grave in return.
You can talk about plot hooks from fantasy churches and what not, but that looks suspiciously like Forgotten Realms-ish nonsense to me. The better plots have nothing to do with resurrection spells: Orpheus and Eurydice, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, book 11 of the Odyssey.
My solution is to give the fate of the dead into the hands of whatever power ought to be governing them in the first place. Some other upstart god does not have the right to grant his worshippers power over life and death. I say if you want something from the grave, you have to give something to the grave in return.
You can talk about plot hooks from fantasy churches and what not, but that looks suspiciously like Forgotten Realms-ish nonsense to me. The better plots have nothing to do with resurrection spells: Orpheus and Eurydice, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, book 11 of the Odyssey.
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arwink
Clockwork Golem
I keep the spells in, although the cost tends to be a bit wonky depending on who the PC's are getting to do the raising. I have no problem with the party cleric casting his own however.
One thing worth keeping in mind for parties that are using NPC clerics is that if it's cheap and easy to get someone raised, it's should be just as cheap and easy to pay the priest to keep the PC dead. Comes in very handy for games where rich and powerful enemies are more than willing to throw money at a church to keep minor annoyances gone
One thing worth keeping in mind for parties that are using NPC clerics is that if it's cheap and easy to get someone raised, it's should be just as cheap and easy to pay the priest to keep the PC dead. Comes in very handy for games where rich and powerful enemies are more than willing to throw money at a church to keep minor annoyances gone
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
Tallarn said:
Ah, but not if YOU'RE the 9th level cleric. That's the really interesting thing with raise dead that has nothing to do with society. The real impact it has on your game is that death becomes a lot less.. well.. deadly to your PCs. In that sense, it can have a fundamental impact on anyone's campaign.
John Smallberries
First Post
I allow the spell to be used as per the PHB.
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Piratecat said:
I usually find it is enough to require the target of the spell to accept a geas. If his or her friends like the recipient so much as to drag the body quickly back to town and spend resources on the whole thing, they're going to follow along on the quest.
If nothing else, if the target must go on a quest, and dies again because he's got no support, then the party just wasted all that money and effort.
Also the spell dont work is the target reached his race maximun limit.
Also a lv1 aristocrat cannot be raised, meaning that even if they can afford it, they cannot be brought back.
Also the target have to be willing to return, they can block the spell from working meaning that the souls that are in their deity realm will likely not be very keen to return.
Also a lv1 aristocrat cannot be raised, meaning that even if they can afford it, they cannot be brought back.
Also the target have to be willing to return, they can block the spell from working meaning that the souls that are in their deity realm will likely not be very keen to return.
Aluvial
Explorer
Piratecat said:
Exactly. I have been a DM for years and this spell has plagued countless campains that I've run. As soon as 9th level is achieved, the sense of danger is immediately ripped from the PCs and soon thereafter the campaign is constantly halted by PC being raised after succumbing to dangerous conditions/creatures.
This version takes a level, but the problem remains, if your cleric is 9th level he can cast the spell and bring you back from whatever hell the PC belongs in.
This one monumental point changes the way the game is even run. To truly kill a PC you have to destoy the body, and even that can be countered at later levels, especially with the rapid progression of charter levels. How many times has a PC of mine disregarded the body, with knowledge that the spirit remains linked to any part of the body.
And yes, there are many ways the DM can counter the PCs but it is an effort that is born from desperation of trying to reinstill that respect of danger that should be present in the PC's actions and attitudes. In the end you are overcompensating for something that you shouldn't have allowed to get out of control in the first place.
This is exactly the problem I am trying to solve now. I don't want my current campaign to degrade into the obvious traps that I've faced in past ventures. Again, with the rapid advancement of PC levels and the almost countless additions to maximize play, I feel the need to control this one aspect of my campaign.
I need more suggestions, or even definitive answers.
Thanks again,
Aluvial
Not really ... it need a body for the spell to work.
If its been digested, it dont work ... also soul trap and other naughty things will make render that spell useless
Also who is going to raise then if the whole party is dead?
There are many conditions, if the body is burried under a avalance they going to find it, if it falls from a cliff that means climbing down there, drowing means the body is driven away with the flow ...
The "bring back from the dead" was just to prevent the problems with having to roll a new character and figure out how to put in the party, also there is the issue when the party is on a place were such "reinforcement" arriving does not make much sense.
If its been digested, it dont work ... also soul trap and other naughty things will make render that spell useless
Also who is going to raise then if the whole party is dead?
There are many conditions, if the body is burried under a avalance they going to find it, if it falls from a cliff that means climbing down there, drowing means the body is driven away with the flow ...
The "bring back from the dead" was just to prevent the problems with having to roll a new character and figure out how to put in the party, also there is the issue when the party is on a place were such "reinforcement" arriving does not make much sense.
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