D&D 5E Raise Dead/Reincarnate on dead undeads

[adam_antio]

Ok, I'll explain: the party accidentally killed a powerful wizard who might have been a valuable ally. Then our necromancer rushed in and tried to resurrect him using the vats and machinery inside the npc's own laboratory... that no one known creates ghouls. With a 24 in an arcana check, our necro manages to resurrect the wizard as an almost reasonable ghast, retaining all of his spellcasting, intelligence, and he's also somewhat capable of controlling his hunger for flesh, selecting his victims from those who will not be missed (at least for now). That said, the party now wants to actually resurrect him. If they kill this undead, will they be able to target him with raise dead (or reincarnate)? Or does the clause of "no undead" apply, even if he's totally dead (or "only humanoid" for reincarnate)?

Thank you!

 

[ExploderWizard]

I would say a wish or something similar would be needed now to return this wizard to a living person again. Perhaps a plea or request to a deity from a VERY faithful cleric in exchange for completing an extremely difficult quest. A great excuse for a new adventure that may or may not be related to what is currently happening in the campaign.

 

[Umbran]

I don't think the rules of 5e make a clear statement on the matter. That means it works as you want it to. But, beware that you're setting a precedent, and that precedent can have repercussions.

It may take some time to think about whether there are any ugly results of this that someone trying to "game the system" could generate. Basically - why wouldn't we want this possible? What can go wrong?

 

[adam_antio]

I don't really know. If it's so unclear, then we'll settle on "the cleric decides (being the most affected character by the situation) and sets this precedent".

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

After he's dead again, he's no longer undead. There may be a few undead creatures whose essence is utterly snuffed out if they are destroyed, but I woudln't expect that to extend to ghasts. The no undead clause is somewhat odd in Resurrection, given that it isnt present in Raise Dead or Revify and is likely an artifact from a previous draft. The fact that they ave to be willing means you couldnt say, dig up a malevolent ghosts corporeal remains, resurrect him, and defeat him easily. Given the one hour casting time, it's not like you could use the spell in combat to turn Strahd into a regular human even if the DM allowed a save or something.

I think going by the 10 day timeline in Raise Dead makes sense. After 10 days, the soul is more ghast than man, and he is probably unwilling to return as a human. Even if they killed him, he'd rather remain in the realm of Dorsain or Yeenoghu, or the Dreamlands (or wherever Lovecraft's Ghouls live) in the ghoul equivalent of an afterlife.

 

[adam_antio]

Actually, the clause is present in raise dead! But revify is an excellent solution for us. I think the clause exist because I can see high priests killing (weak) undeads with true resurrection.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

The no undead clause is somewhat odd in Resurrection, given that it isnt present in Raise Dead or Revify and is likely an artifact from a previous draft.

It is present on Raise Dead.

 

[Enkhidu]

Dude, I have no idea why on earth you would let this problem be fixed with a single spell. Your players vastly improved an existing NPC with the necromancer's shenanigans. The party now has a powerful ally, but how long can he stave off the hunger before devolving into madness?

I strongly suggest you turn resolving this mess into a full fledged adventure rather than a single "magic makes it better" event. Maybe the contraption that turned the wizard into a ghast drew his soul out of him, and it needs to be (safely) reunited with the body, or the ghast is actually a completely different entity riding around in the wizard's skin and biding its time until it can bring its own plans to fruition?

If you throw the complications in (without hampering the cleric overall by making a ruling that will affect other situations), your players will love you for it when they finally reach their goal.

 

[phantomK9]

I'd say do what is most fun for the group even if the spell descriptions might make it undoable...hey, it's magic, there's always a loop hole.

We had a similar situation in an Eberon game a while back. Some important agent for our side had been captured and turned by a vampire. We were able to rescue him but him being a now uncooperative vampire put a serious crimp in getting the intell that he had. We embarked on a quest to cure his vampirism, which by rules couldn't be done. Basic outline is that we needed to get a bunch of rare ingredients and at least one artifact level item....

 

[adam_antio]

Thanks for the suggestion, but it was their idea to contact a powerful cleric to cast the spell for them (by Shelter of the Faithful of our own cleric). The npc cleric will obviously ask something in return, but as a general rule, I create opposition, they decide the solution, and I think they would be most happy if their idea, provided it makes sense, has at least some chances! and actually that wizard is totally a ghoul. The laboratory cannot create anything else. Believe me, he tried a lot of times!

(I'm expecting replies like "you decide what a npc cleric can do and whatnot." That's true, but I need to know if he's a 17th level cleric that casts true resurrection, or a still powerful but not so much 9th cleric that casts raise dead. What they will ask in return, and a lot of other things, will depend on this one!)