Rake and Pounce confusion? [2004 Thread]

[Hypersmurf]

If you succeed with improved grab, you forfeit the rest of your natural attacks for the round because you are now in a grappled state. (Is that right, Hyp?)

Well, you're limited to attacking with one natural weapon while grappling. So I think I'd allow one claw attack that round, since your bite attack was made while not grappling.

-Hyp.

 

[Kershek]

Is that using the "attack an opponent" action, where you can use a natural weapon at -4? If so, doesn't that happen starting on the next round after you've started the grapple?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is that using the "attack an opponent" action, where you can use a natural weapon at -4? If so, doesn't that happen starting on the next round after you've started the grapple?

Why? It substitutes for an attack, and after you've initiated the grappe, you still have attacks left from your full attack action.

-Hyp.

 

[Kershek]

Hmm, guess you're right.

However, I remember reading that an animal with natural attacks that is grappling can do an attack an opponent action once for every natural weapon it has. This would lead me to believe that you can bite + improved grab, then attack with both claws at -4.

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, I remember reading that an animal with natural attacks that is grappling can do an attack an opponent action once for every natural weapon it has.

That's the opposite of what the Rake text says:

"Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling."

-Hyp.

 

[Kershek]

I did some hunting on google. I found a sage reply on frp.dnd at http://tinyurl.com/2dwm9

<< My questions, then, are "How many natural weapons can a monster use in a
grapple? Can it mix grapple checks and natural weapon attacks? Is there any
distinction between primary and secondary attacks for a monster when
grappling?" >>

All of them.
It can make one grapple attack per natural weapon, just as a character can make
one grapple attempt per attack normally allowed. Weapon used in a rake can't be
used for grapple attempts.

More sage answers here: http://tinyurl.com/33zd9 and here: http://tinyurl.com/3as4y

Not sure what to make of this now..

 

[Jhulae]

I did some hunting on google. I found a sage reply on frp.dnd at http://tinyurl.com/2dwm9

More sage answers here: http://tinyurl.com/33zd9 and here: http://tinyurl.com/3as4y

Not sure what to make of this now..

Well, Improved Grab (which is a different thing than normal grapples) only occur with specified natural attacks normally ('When a leopard hits with its bite attack, it initiates a grapple as a free action', etc.).

Note, that if the bite missed, and the leopard still had claw attacks left, it could use those to attempt to start a grapple. Also, if the creature wasn't one size class (or more) smaller, it could still attempt to start a grapple on an opponent with any or all of it's (non rake) attacks; it just could not start one for free on a bite that hits.

 

[Hypersmurf]

More sage answers here...

"Yes, the Rake text is hooey"?

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

I thought a creature's grapple attacks was based on it's BAB (non iterative for animals) and so they only got one grapple attempt per round. Which, for a leopard, is used in the Improved Grab, and therefore wouldn't be able to attack further until it was eligible for another grapple check until the next round? At which point, it could either grapple check to apply bite damage (the attack that established the grapple) or take the -4 penalty for the claw attack? Or is that grapple check for bite damage AND claw attack at -4?

 

[Kershek]

It appears the Sage has different thoughts on the matter.