Rampant Anti-Groggism

[FireLance]

Naw, there are no tumors on D&D, outside WotC or within.

The Cancer Mage prestige class from the 3e Book of Vile Darkness would beg to differ.

 

[SteveC]

I think this is more in keeping with the anti-grognard theme of the post title rather than what the thread has become, but hey... this is the best place I've seen to make the point.

When it comes to gaming and encouraging people to game, I'm very edition neutral: I love D&D, and the enthusiasm that comes from all of the editions. I play 4E, and some people who are great gamers on this site don't like it at all, and since I respect them, I won't bash their brand of fun at all, and I think there's room in big tent for OE, BECMI, AD&D, C&C, 2E, 3X, 4E... you name it!

What's happening at the moment is that we're having a discussion about what the next edition of D&D is going to be. At a time like this, while I certainly respect other people's opinions, I'm not going to say "3D6 in order? Great! Make that the default rule!" I'm not going to say that because it's not the kind of D&D I would have any interest in playing at this point.

I think a lot of the perceived attacks on older editions are coming from the perspective that some grognards have that the old ways are best, and we should go back to them. I don't agree at all, and I'm going to participate in the playtest and forums like this to try and state my case.

When I've heard about some of the ideas being floated, and I'll pick on THAC0, I have to simply say "no!" THAC0 is in no way a good idea. It's mathematically identical to the other system, but slower and more cumbersome. Now if you want to play a THAC0 based game, great: I did so not too long ago as a matter of fact, but I certainly won't say that it should be the default for the next edition.

So I'd say that a certain degree of argument should be expected at this point (civil discourse as much as possible to help the mods out) but that arguments are going to come up, especially during the playtest.

Now after 5E comes out, I'd say that the die has been cast, and people are just going to have to live with what we end up with. Or play another game.

Right now, though, it's time to get your forces together and marshal behind the banner of my Anti-Vancian League!

 

[Henry]

WHAT IS MY PURPOSE IN LIFE NOW IF NOT TO CRITICIZE OTHERS FOR THEIR BELIEFS IN ORDER TO VALIDATE MY OWN BELIEFS?????

Simple. Porn.

 

[Spinachcat]

Here's the cold hard reality: 5e isn't going to unite the gaming community.

Like any new D&D edition, its going to get lots of attention at first and many people will try it...and then go back to whatever they are most comfortable playing. A fraction will be left playing 5e, but 5e will leave the fandom even more segmented.

Many people will continue playing 4e.

Most Pathfinder fans will stay with Paizo.

Most of the OSR will stay with the TSR classics.

The end result? The edition wars get a new group. But if the VTT is done right, perhaps WotC will be able to expand its customer base.

 

[Kalontas]

Maybe have a word with yourself on the whole malignant thing

"NO U" is never a good argument.

We've had enough of that kind of nonsense, really. EN World is not a place for beating on people. The moderation staff is of the opinion that people are more important than game preferences.

If you're talking about me, I'm perfectly cool with other people playing what they want. I WANT them to play whatever they wish. It's when they try to impose their sensibilities on my game when they're becoming harmful to my game and my style of play. It's people who insist only their options in the game are valid and anything related to 4E needs to die and burn. That kind of "grognardism". That was what I was addressing, as could be clearly seen in the post if someone didn't skip to the "tumor" part and go "OMFG bad word!"

Here's the cold hard reality: 5e isn't going to unite the gaming community.

And I'm afraid we have the winner here. I really don't want this to be true, so I try to voice my opinions on what makes that game good in the community - both here and on the official boards, and for that purpose I did sign to the playtests. I am trying to make this game better, through including the best parts of -every- edition, but the reactions I see leave me disillusioned again (given all the disillusionment in my life, it should be my second name instead of Andrew). It's like nobody besides me wants this edition to be the best of all, just wants to reproduce his own edition.

And that's what in the end going to bring D&D down during 5E. Self-centerism of most of the gamers.

 

[KarinsDad]

Let's look at the Vancian magic. IMO - and in opinion of many 4E players - lack of it in 4E was a vast improvement. Now they're stating it's back and in the core, so you can't avoid it.

If you hadn't noticed, until Essentials, EVERY 4E PC had Vancian magic.

It's called Dailies. Even magic items have it.

Granted, you cannot swap your Dailies like with Vancian from day to day unless you are a Wizard, but the basic concept is the same. It just has a different name.

 

[Cybit]

Simple. Porn.

That's the purpose of the internet, not life.

Right? <gulp>

 

[Herschel]

The way I see it being developed so far, I can't see a single new player for 5E. With more and more quotes coming, it looks like it wholesale borrows from 3.5, ...

It's more borrowing from 1E than anything as all those 1E/2E players that haven't spent a dime on WotC products is their real target. 3E isn't the crowd they're targeting with "the core" either.

3E and 4E fans will get their goodies in modules at some point, maybe sooner, maybe later.

 

[billd91]

If you're talking about me, I'm perfectly cool with other people playing what they want. I WANT them to play whatever they wish. It's when they try to impose their sensibilities on my game when they're becoming harmful to my game and my style of play. It's people who insist only their options in the game are valid and anything related to 4E needs to die and burn. That kind of "grognardism". That was what I was addressing, as could be clearly seen in the post if someone didn't skip to the "tumor" part and go "OMFG bad word!"

Well, 4e sensibilities "got forced" on the game I'd played for nearly 30 years. Are you really trying to say it's OK for that to happen to me but not for other sensibilities to be imposed on "your" game? That for suggesting that 4e needs to dial back the changes away from 1e/2e/3e core play I should die and burn?

 

[Incenjucar]

Well, 4e sensibilities "got forced" on the game I'd played for nearly 30 years. Are you really trying to say it's OK for that to happen to me but not for other sensibilities to be imposed on "your" game? That for suggesting that 4e needs to dial back the changes away from 1e/2e/3e core play I should die and burn?

Sensibilities that exclude options should be strictly optional.

Orthodox D&D can exist within the greater possibilities.