Random Point-Buy?

[Storminator]

I'd advise against it.

Because of the nonlinearity of point buy, you're introducing a lot more variability than you think by throwing in 2d4 random points -- there's a fair difference between 26 and 32 point buy. All points are not created equal, in other words.

If you insist on adding a random element, I'd recommend you keep it small -- 1d4 points at most. Otherwise, just go with the point amount that you want the average to be.

I disagree. The nonlinearity works in your favor. The difference between 26 and 32 point buys will be, at most, +3 modifier bonus. If the players have different philosophies of point buy, it's possible the 26 point PC will have HIGHER net bonuses than the 32 point PC.

I've had games where I used 24+1d8 points and it worked fine.

PS

 

[Hawkshere]

When starting up a new campaign, I like to use a Shadowrun-style priority scheme that allows players to rank their priorities according to their character concept. So Attribute point-buy could scale from say, 24 pts to 36 pts, depending on the rank chosen. Other competing priorities might be Wealth (starting cash and non-adventuring income), Magic (special magic items or extra spells), Background Feats (ala FR regional feats). In some cases, I've offered players a free "virtual" level in an NPC class for a highest-priority pick if it helps flesh out a good character concept.

 

[Cheiromancer]

We use an organic 28-point buy. The way it works is you roll 3d6 in order of the stats (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA). You add up what those stats would cost you to buy. Then we allow one swap (i.e. STR for INT) and then you can spend points up to a 28-point buy (provided you didn't roll greater than a 28-point buy in the first place. Lastly, you always get to spend at least 3 points (regardless of the rolls) to help you with any bad bumps.

We like this because each character's stats, while good, don't feel so manufactured and it adds character. Sometimes you do get those fighters with a strong INT or CHA (some of the stats you would regularly see them tank in order to max out STR, CON, DEX).

My last campaign, I let folks roll 4d6 drop lowest in order of the stats. Then we counted up the points. If less than 28, the player bought up to 28, and were allowed one swap. If the point value was between 28 and 32, they just got the swap. If higher than 32, those were the stats (no swap, no improvements).

 

[Conaill]

In my opinion, this sort of "random point-buy" gives you the WORST of both worlds! It combines the imbalance between characters, with the potential for min-maxing of point-buy.

Most people who choose point-buy do so precisely because of the inherent balance between characters. On the other hand, many people who choose to roll do so because they like the randomness, the "natural", non-coockie cutter feeling of the resulting stats. Your proposed method throws out BOTH of these desired effects!

Instead, I greatly prefer methods that give (1) somewhat randomized stats, while (2) still being somewhat balanced. Here are a couple of methods that I've posted a number of times before which combine these favorable properties, rather than throwing them both out...

1) Roll stats, then adjust up or down to match a desired point value. If the rolled stats have a higher point value than desired you are only allowed to decrease stats, and vice versa.

2) The card method, developed by someone else on these boards: Get a deck of cards, and throw out everything exept the 1-6 cards. Deal six stacks of 4 cards, drop the lowest card from each stack. This gives almost exactly the same distribution for the individual stats as 4d6-drop-1, but the overall mix of stats will be much better balanced. At best you can get an 18 and a 15 as you highest stats (no matter how often you "reroll" ).

3) Roll only three stats. The remaining three are equal to 25 minus the first three (max 18). You'll get a mix of three odd and three even stats, and for every high stat there has to be a low one as well.

 

[billbo]

Can't you do a point buy plus random overlay?

The random overlay would consist of a chart upon which a d20 is rolled. The chart advises you to randomly add or subract one or two points from various abilities.

 

[Ti-bob]

Hello.

I am trying a new method to create characters abilities:

1. Take 12 ordinary playing-cards; 2 four, 2 five, 2 six, 2 seven, 2 eight and 3 nine.
2. The player deals randomly six stacks of 2 cards.
3. The player can to switch any two cards, once.
4. The player assigns each stack to each stat in any order.
5. That's it.

This method try to preserve the fairness of point-buy with the randomness of dice-throwing. You can toying with other combinations of cards. This one gives an average of 13, a range of 8 to 18 and a calculated point-buy value of about 33 points.

I would appreciate any comments on this method.

Thanks.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Your idea does seem reasonable. If you wanted to centralize the possibilities a little bit more, you could go 4d2 - but then you really are only allowing for a little variation. As such, 2d4 seems like the way to go.

Our group is in the process of starting a new 3.5 Campaign.
You might be interested in the following system we are using (please excuse the presentation):

COST FIXED SCORE ROLL TYPE
0 - 8 or 4d6 Remove Highest
1 - 9 or 5d6 Reroll 1’s, Remove Highest
2 - 10 or 3d6
3 - 11 or 5d6 Reroll 1’s, 2’s Remove Highest
4 - 12 or 4d6 Remove Lowest
5 - 13 or 5d6 Remove Lowest
6 - 14 or 6d6 Remove Lowest
8 - 15 or 5d6 Reroll 1’s, 2’s Remove Lowest
10 - 16 or 6d6 Reroll 1’s, 2’s Remove Lowest
13 - 17 -
16 - 18 -

The rolls have been worked out so that half the time you will get above what you could have bought and half the time you could get on or below what you could have bought.

In either case, you are buying a score for a stat or you are buying a roll type for a stat.

I started off suggesting 28 points but everyone talked me into allowing 32 points.

After they play around with the rolls, they normally find that it is too risky to roll everything. They buy most of their scores and will roll one or two others.

On the whole, I can suggest it to anyone who likes the consistency of the point buy system but still wants the characters in their game to have a little variability.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Altalazar]

I'd say keep the random out of it. Pick the points you want to give them and give it to them. That is fair and balanced. You decide.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Hello.

I am trying a new method to create characters abilities:

1. Take 12 ordinary playing-cards; 2 four, 2 five, 2 six, 2 seven, 2 eight and 3 nine.
2. The player deals randomly six stacks of 2 cards.
3. The player can to switch any two cards, once.
4. The player assigns each stack to each stat in any order.
5. That's it.

This method try to preserve the fairness of point-buy with the randomness of dice-throwing. You can toying with other combinations of cards. This one gives an average of 13, a range of 8 to 18 and a calculated point-buy value of about 33 points.

We just tried a similar method where you have 24 cards of value 1-6. Shuffle and deal into 6 piles into an assigned stat order (before looking). Take the best 3 of 4 in the pile. Swap two stats.

That allows some variability in stats between PCs, but prevents any unusally good or bad runs of luck. Typical results are ~27-28 points.

We liked it a lot. There is a certain joy in making the most out an array that you would not have chosen.

As for the original posters campaigns, I recommend simply assigning a straight 32 points when converting characters. That puts the responsibility of being true to your original character in the players hands. Sometimes players grumble when converting to 3e that their stats are too low, and giving them 32 points lets them buy that 16 or 17 if they really want it and won't create jealousies between players when they are in a bad mood.

The partially randomized methods work best when starting a fresh batch of characters when the players have a more open mind, not when converting old beloved heroes.

 

[Lalato]

My group has started using an interesting method... We roll stats and place them in a three by three grid. Strength, Dexterity and Constitution form the rows of the grid. Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma form the columns of the grid.

It looks like this...

[_][I][W][C]
[S][#][#][#]
[D][#][#][#]
[C][#][#][#]

Once a number is chosen it cannot be used by another stat. So if I choose column 3 for my Strength, I can't use that number for my Charisma. The nice thing is that this can be scaled for power by the number or way dice are rolled for stats. 3d6, 4d6 drop lowest, 3d6 reroll 1s, etc...

--sam