D&D (2024) Ranged Builds Thread

[Not a Decepticon]

I like the Rogue + Celestial Patron Warlock using Hand crossbow.

You take two levels of Rogue, take Slow Weapon Mastery on Hand Crossbow. Then Six levels of Celestial Patron Warlock. You get True Strike Cantrip and attach to it Agonizing Blast and Lance of Letargy, then get to Radiant Soul feature. After than go up to 6th level of Rogue.

You can now use Cunning Action to get advantage, cast True Strike to deal Radiant Damage, adding your Charisma Bonus three times (True Strike, Agonizing Blast, Radiant Soul), reducing target's speed by 30 feet (Slow + Lance of Lethargy) and you may also add Trip to knock enemy prone.

From there I am torn whenever go with more Rogue for more damage or more Warlock so you can also concentrate on some spells while you shoot, or squeeze in 4 levels of Battlemaster Fighter for Action Surge and Maneuvers to add more battlefield control.

 

[Zardnaar]

The issue is that you cannot get sharpshooter, max cha/int/wis for true struke and GWM till level 13 at the earliest (13 instead of 12 due to the single level fighter dip). Which of those things are you giving up before that?

Dex based Rogues can because Sharpshooter pulls double duty raising their dex to 18 and giving them a feat they want.

Yup one reason battlemaster fighter is the best overall. Until sorlock can get around 32 sorcery points whenever that is.

Build online level 3 or 4 complete at 8. Tell me more about your level 12 build lol.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yup one reason battlemaster fighter is the best overall. Until sorlock can get around 32 sorcery points whenever that is.

Build online level 3 or 4 complete at 8. Tell me more about your level 12 build lol.

I think a level 7 sorcerer can convert all slots to sorcery points and use his class recharge ability can reach 32. 2 levels of warlock for hex + eb + agonizing is character level 9.

My bigger concern is that at least 1 round per battle and probably more is from using your bonus action to cast or move hex around. That could easily mean you are only reaching 50% or so extra damage in many typical situations.

If one used Empowered metamagic could you reroll the d10 and d6 of every attack up to your charisma mod?

 

[Zardnaar]

I think a level 7 sorcerer can convert all slots to sorcery points and use his class recharge ability can reach 32. 2 levels of warlock for hex + eb + agonizing is character level 9.

My bigger concern is that at least 1 round per battle and probably more is from using your bonus action to cast or move hex around. That could easily mean you are only reaching 50% or so extra damage in many typical situations.

If one used Empowered metamagic could you reroll the d10 and d6 of every attack up to your charisma mod?

Empowered EB. Seems to be so.

When I number crunched sorlock Years ago it was in effect action surging every round eventually.

 

[FrogReaver]

Empowered EB. Seems to be so.

When I number crunched sorlock Years ago it was in effect action surging every round eventually.

I think one could use empowered and seeking before character level 11 without too much drop off in damage compared to quicken and would make playing the character feel alot less clunky.

 

[mellored]

I think one could use empowered and seeking before character level 11 without too much drop off in damage compared to quicken and would make playing the character feel alot less clunky.

True.

If you only have 1 ray and miss, Seeking would be a cheaper Quicken. And even with 2 rays rerolling a missed attack would cost the same SP cost.

But really, I would only use Hex until level 5 (W2/S3) then swap to Quicken + Web / Cloud of Daggers / Hypnotic Pattern. Push enemies into the zones.

Less theoretical damage, but more control. Especially if you can grab Grasp of Hadar and Lance of Lethargy.

 

[FrogReaver]

True.

If you only have 1 ray and miss, Seeking would be a cheaper Quicken. And even with 2 rays rerolling a missed attack would cost the same SP cost.

Exactly, so long as you can expect enough misses for the Sorcery points you have then seeking is the same damage addition as quicken without the bonus action requirement. At least while you have 2 beams.

But really, I would only use Hex until level 5 (W2/S3) then swap to Quicken + Web / Cloud of Daggers / Hypnotic Pattern. Push enemies into the zones.

1. Web isn't a good DPR boosting tool, great control spell though. The enemy gets an initial save and then can attempt to escape, meaning if you even get advantage with it, you probably won't have it for long, especially if you are using it for it's full control potential (on a melee only enemy not engaged yet with the party). It takes your action to cast. It also means less sorcery points for quicken. Again, great spell, but at levels 1-10 that's more controller with low damage EB than ranged build with a bit of control.

2. Cloud of Daggers I don't really understand at all. I guess the thought is you put it under an enemy, expect them not to move 30+ft away and then push them back into it. Doesn't seem very reliable IMO. Can work if your party has alot of forced movement, but not so great if the only forced movement is from your EB caster.

3. Hypnotic Pattern heavily depends on how the DM plays it. It's usually either way OP or way underpowered. Enemies can always daisy chain each other awake, the only question is whether the DM will have them do so. And besides, Single Class Warlock or Sorcerer is going to do this better for most of the game than the Sorlock.

Less theoretical damage, but more control. Especially if you can grab Grasp of Hadar and Lance of Lethargy.

4. Neither Grasp of Hadar nor Lance of Lethargy exist for the 2024 Warlock.

In general I think you are giving up too much to try and push for these things and it makes your build compete more with control sorcerers than ranged characters, and that's a comparison all but the highest level sorlocks are going to be much worse at.

I think if I wanted controller with EB for levels 1-10 then I'd just build straight warlock and avoid hex.

*EB+AB by itself just isn't a good damage option in 2024. Every single martial can trounce it's damage from level 1-10, and most have some control options they can add in while doing that as well.

 

[mellored]

you probably won't have it for long, especially if you are using it for it's full control potential (on a melee only enemy not engaged yet

And the difficult terrain, and pushing them into it.

at levels 1-10 that's more controller with low damage EB than ranged build with a bit of control.

Sure. There's a spectrum here. But you can adapt for each fight.

If there's a flying ranged creature, use Hex
A corridor with a bunch of melee, use Web.

Cloud of Daggers I don't really understand at all. I guess the thought is you put it under an enemy, expect them not to move 30+ft away and then push them back into it. Doesn't seem very reliable IMO. Can work if your party has alot of forced movement, but not so great if the only forced movement is from your EB caster.

You can move it now. Not even counting allies getting opportunity attacks when they move out, or putting it in a 5' doorway.

Action for 4d4 * 100% = 10. (+ allies + Quicken EB)
Vs
Action for 1d10+3+1d6 * 60%= 7.2

Upcast in a 3rd level slot will beat out 2 beams.

And again, you can adapt to the situation. Hex or Web is still available against a mobile enemy.

(A straight Cloud of Daggers caster doesn't do to bad as ranged DPS either)

Single Class Warlock or Sorcerer is going to do this better for most of the game than the Sorlock.

But it does more damage than a sorcerer, and more control than a Warlock.

I think if I wanted controller with EB for levels 1-10 then I'd just build straight warlock and avoid hex.

It's Quicken that makes it good. It's both Control + Damage on the same turn (or Damage + Damage).

70% damage + 70% control = 140% power.


But I agree it's mediocre (not terrible) below level 5. You don't have enough Quicken. And it doesn't really pull ahead till level 7.

 

[FrogReaver]

And the difficult terrain, and pushing them into it.

Sure. There's a spectrum here. But you can adapt for each fight.

If there's a flying ranged creature, use Hex
A corridor with a bunch of melee, use Web.

You can move it now. Not even counting allies getting opportunity attacks when they move out, or putting it in a 5' doorway.

Action for 4d4 * 100% = 10. (+ allies + Quicken EB)
Vs
Action for 1d10+3+1d6 * 60%= 7.2

Upcast in a 3rd level slot will beat out 2 beams.

And again, you can adapt to the situation. Hex or Web is still available against a mobile enemy.

(A straight Cloud of Daggers caster doesn't do to bad as ranged DPS either)

But it does more damage than a sorcerer, and more control than a Warlock.

It's Quicken that makes it good. It's both Control + Damage on the same turn (or Damage + Damage).

70% damage + 70% control = 140% power.


But I agree it's mediocre (not terrible) below level 5. You don't have enough Quicken. And it doesn't really pull ahead till level 7.

A few points in no particular order.
1. It doesn't matter what you 'can' do if you don't have the resources to do it often. That's the Sorlocks biggest problem. As you level that becomes less and less of a concern, but it doesn't even remotely get mitigated enough for a long time.
2. The Sorlock doesn't pull ahead at level 7. It happens much later than that. In fact, he's still behind at level 7.
3. I think by high level the Sorlock comes out on top. Just the basics of EB+AB with quicken every turn and a big control spell once per encounter seems very promising. Especially when you add in foresight. But it takes a while to work up to that point.

On specific spells/abilities
Cloud of Daggers - EB makes 2 attacks at level 5 which is when the Sorlock can first pick up Cloud of Daggers. EB+Hex will do more damage than the level 2 slot of Cloud of Daggers. It matches the level 3 slot of Cloud of Daggers while providing pushing. Thus, Cloud of Daggers is not a good damage spell. In the right party it could be great, but generally it's going to be inferior. Nor do allies get opportunity attacks for an enemy moving out of Cloud of Daggers. This is 5e, the enemy can simply move around the ally without provoking an OA. Generally it takes at least 2 allies on opposite corners of an enemy to generate a single OA from an enemy moving 1 square. If not that exact positioning then it takes 3.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm trying to put this into perspective.

Assuming the standard 60% chance of success.

A battlemaster using 5 dice on menacing attack will fear an enemy 3 turns per short rest.

A reoccuring save spell like Tasha's will disable an enemy around 1.2 turns on average (assuming a 4 round combat). Roughly 3 Uses of Tasha's or 1 upcast level 3 version will disable enemies about the same number of turns.

So 1 level 3 slot per short rest would roughly equal the battlemaster manuever control effect. Would be slightly better than it.

So that's 3 level 3 slots per day to match the control aspect. Then, we need to match the damage. The battlemaster does something like 5.5+4+3 x2 @ 70% accuracy at level 7 + action surge + 22.5 from Manuevers. The EB+AB does 9.5 x2 @ 60% accuracy. Assuming 8 rounds in a short rest period, that's something like 16 uses of EB+AB required per short rest to match the damage if you do all the math. You can only do 15 due to action economy restrictions in an 8 round day. You also have a big sorcery point limiting factor on top of that.

Essentially you need to be able to cast a level 3+ spell once a short rest and use quicken every turn. It gets a bit worse at level 8 since the battlemaster gets an ASI which increases his damage which will increase the number of EB's you need. But the thing is, the number of quickens required tends to increase and increase. GWM keeps adding damage, Action Surge adds more damage as your damage increases, bigger/more manuever dice keep adding damage. Rerolling Misses adds accuracy which adds DPR. Etc.

I don't think you can actually equal the battlemasters damage + control combination until you get something like foresight or your 4th EB beam since it comes before the FIghters 4th attack.