D&D 5E Ranged party member keeps running off the map

[iserith]

There wasn't a lot of ifs or contingencies. There was one: depends on the game.

And "...if this is causing one or more PCs to drop, then the kiter in my opinion should come back into the fray to take some of the heat."

You flat out said that a player not putting their HP into the group's HP pool to act as a damage sponge, you'd tell them to do so even if it's against their role or concept.

No, I didn't.

So when you make statements like "the party's pool of HP" that tells me we play the game very differently, because you seem to look at the party as a pool of numbers and resources, and I look at the party as a group of personalities and people.

I look at them as both. Because that's what they are.

So, no, I don't think we play the game "very differently."

 

[Sunseeker]

Why do they have such massive line of sight? Is there no shrubbery, trees or walls between them and their targets? If all your fights take place on the open plains, wouldn't bad-guys in these areas be accustomed to fighting in open terrain and know how to avoid being kited to death?

 

[Sacrosanct]

No, I didn't.

I guess we're adding lying to the list of general dishonest as well.

As a player, I agree with [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] - the player is not contributing to the party's defense and placing a heavier burden on the rest of the party's hit point pool. Whether that will actually become a big problem depends highly on the game, but it can be an issue. There is no prize for ending the day with all your hit points and hit dice and if this is causing one or more PCs to drop, then the kiter in my opinion should come back into the fray to take some of the heat.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Serious reply:

I understand your concern, but remember: one less party member means the rest will have to soak all the incoming damage without the benefit of the gunsmith's AC or HP.

The other players should quickly realize this. If they're complete newbies, have a NPC point it out next time they fight where there are witnesses.

After that you just wait. The other players should start demanding the gunsmith do their part in defense and not just offense, or maybe he shouldn't get a full share of the loot... or even be booted from the party.

But that's not all - equally important is talking to the player.

If you realize he's just doing this because he's new and doesn't realize teamwork includes defense as well as offense, he should learn soon enough per the above. At the other end of the scale, if the player is more experienced, and should have known better; maybe he's only interested in his own personal power trip, you'll have to be blunt: that's not how you want him to act, and ultimately change behavior (maybe roll up a melee fighter?) or leave the game.

What I don't recommend is the indirect (even passive-agressive) method of popping random monsters or something else in game: this is an out-of-game issue that needs an out-of-game solution.

By that I mean that in the context of the game, his actions are perfectly reasonable. So don't punish perfectly reasonable actions with random monsters. In game, the only recourse is for the rest of the party to ask the gunsmith to be there for monsters to beat on, since this means less risk somebody else will die. Safety in numbers and all that.

This confuses me. Why would the team be mad that the sniper is sniping? When I'm a player, if the DM had an NPC point out that the sniper doesn't seem to be taking much risk of getting hit by the enemy, I'd just say, "Yeah, and good thing, too. That's my job. His job is kill guys without me having to worry about needing to keep him safe." or something along those lines. Just like with a sneak that has ways of being hidden nearly all the time. Great. That means they also get advantage a lot, so their attacks land a lot, so the enemies go down faster. Sounds good. Either way, they are absolutely still contributing just as much to the team's success as they tankey fighter.

And then on the other end, you're telling OP not to "punish" the player with monsters, as if all the bad guys are just...what, always in a clump, even though the PC's aren't? How does that make sense?
[MENTION=6806492]randrak[/MENTION] Of course there will occasionally be threats to the sniper, in the form of :
flanking enemies

enemy snipers/spell-snipers

really fast/teleporting/flying enemies that the PC can't outrun easily to get out to sniper range

and obstacles to actually doing the thing, like;

terrain that makes it hard to get shots that far out without using whole rounds to get high ground

Indoor fights

Circumstances outside the fight which make it a bad idea to separate from the party, including a running clock. Having to catch back up with the party after the fight ends wastes time if there is some kind of reason they have to get somewhere fast.

None of those should be arbitrarily applied as punishment, they are just logical circumstances that should arise sometimes.

Especially the enemies that have range, can run fast/teleport/fly. If you normally sometimes have waves of enemies, sometimes they should be encountered by a character that moves far away from the party. If not, I wouldn't really use that option.

In the end, determine why this is a problem for your table, figure out if you can adjust your approach to accommodate a pretty reasonable in-game and mechanical decision, and if not, talk to the player about it.

 

[iserith]

I guess we're adding lying to the list of general dishonest as well.

Uh, no. You said:

"You flat out said that a player not putting their HP into the group's HP pool to act as a damage sponge, you'd tell them to do so even if it's against their role or concept."

I did not say that I would tell someone to do that. If you want to make this about honesty (which is laughable anyway), then I suggest you start with your own statements.

In any case, this interaction is going nowhere slowly and is not in my view contributing to anyone's understanding of this issue. I would like to discontinue it at this time.

 

[Sacrosanct]

This confuses me. Why would the team be mad that the sniper is sniping? When I'm a player, if the DM had an NPC point out that the sniper doesn't seem to be taking much risk of getting hit by the enemy, I'd just say, "Yeah, and good thing, too. That's my job. His job is kill guys without me having to worry about needing to keep him safe." or something along those lines. Just like with a sneak that has ways of being hidden nearly all the time. Great. That means they also get advantage a lot, so their attacks land a lot, so the enemies go down faster. Sounds good. Either way, they are absolutely still contributing just as much to the team's success as they tankey fighter.

Absolutely this. What next? Booting the mage from the party because they aren't on the front line putting their HP into the "party pool" either?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

They got sharpshooter feat and a artificer(gunsmith) rifle. Every single fight they use their movement to get further and further and further away to the point where I sometimes run out of map... Plus, they get so far away that no enemy can reach them and they end up not really getting damaged at all.

I've thought about having random monsters pop out since they get so far... what else can I do?

Use a realistically-large map. None of these dinky 120' maps. Even a parking lot is usually 500' across, much less a whole adventuring location like an orcish warcamp.

Have enemies exploit cover and stealth.

Have enemies exploit nighttime darkness. SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for orcs and wargs should be to operate aggressively at night when enemy bowmen cannot see them coming, so that Orcish Aggression (extra movement) can be used to best effect.

Use larger groups of enemies (party should be heavily outnumbered if they all manage to link up). If they take ranged fire, fall back behind total cover, get reinforcements, and assault when visibility conditions are favorable (see above RE: nighttime).

Use mounted enemies (regular horse = 120' free movement every round when it Dashes).

Use flying enemies and exploit the fact that falling is not restricted by movement speeds--there's nothing to prevent e.g. a dragon from diving down ("falling") 1000' out of the sun on its turn, stopping its fall 60' above the archer, breathing fire on everything in a 60' cone (so, 30' radius of devastation), and then spending 80' of flying movement to fly out of thrown weapon range.

Use enemies mounted on flying dragons. Hello, githyanki! (Now you know why gith can all cast Jump. It's for aerial boarding actions. )

 

[ccs]

I had a DM who ruled that if you left the map, your combat was over and you couldn't return. Seemed harsh.

Worked didn't it?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Another thing I don't get is the "player X isn't benefiting from player Y's AC or HP" I mean, I get that the more people there are the more attacks get spread around, but player X isn't player Y, so of course they won't get those benefits. But generally player Y, based on his or her role, is going to have lower AC and HP than the people actually designed for melee combat. It's like saying, "The QB isn't benefiting from the defensive back's blocking skills." Well yeah, but the defensive back is doing other things, like keeping the other team from scoring, or getting a turnover, which in turn helps the QB. Just like player Y is hitting targets player X can't (which can be great for things like forcing opposing casters to make a concentration save.) Putting player Y into melee when they aren't designed for it just so player Y can die faster makes about as much sense as putting a defensive back as an offensive lineman.

As a player of a PC, I don't share my HP or any other stat with any other party member. No one says, "Well, I've taken 45 hp of damage, and you've only taken 10, so you need to be a team player and take more damage." if my role isn't to be front line fighter and theirs is. We don't add everyone's HP together as some sort of weird metric to track who's contributing and who's not.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Kiting has been cited as an issue for some GMs for some time now. And, to be fair, its a valid tactic. The answer is that most adventures don't take place in wide open areas. There's forests, there's towns, there's caverns. The world is filled STUFF, and at a far enough distance, yes, that's going to be full cover as all that stuff gets in the way. Enemies attack under the cover of night, or in dim light. It doesn't matter if you can blast things at 300 feet away if your vision is limited to 60 or 100.

Note that the counterplay to dim light or cover of night is to have a tank PC with a torch (or dancing lights) who closes with the enemy to illuminate them, and then Dodges. Then all the ranged snipers get to shoot the enemy with advantage, unless your DM (like me) has houseruled away advantage for unseen attackers.

Night games are the easiest way to get advantage at range.

Also, stealth/counterstealth games are extremely fun in the dark--at least, fun for the DM. First (N)PC or monster to fail a stealth check gets pasted by a whole bunch of readied actions (and e.g. poisoned drow crossbow bolts, or goblin arrows), and then everyone tries to quickly hide so everyone can do it again. And variations on that theme. Note further that this means that spellcasters will be burning their concentration on readying spells and not on buffs like Bless/Haste/etc., and you'll see why D&D fights in the dark are so very different from regular D&D fights in bright light.