D&D (2024) Ranged weapons with push/slow have too extreme a range

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Prerequisite: Heavy, Two-Handed, or Versatile
Property
If you hit a creature with this weapon, you can
push the creature up to 10 feet away from you if
it is no more than one size larger than you.
Prerequisite: None
If you hit a creature with this weapon and deal
damage to the creature, you can reduce its Speed
by 10 feet until the start of your next turn. If you
hit the creature more than once with this
property, the Speed reduction doesn’t exceed 10
feet.

The two properties are great on a melee weapon where the impact still carries the kinetic energy to accomplish those things & the attacker can't trivially create a situation where it's such an unfun impossible for the opponent to reach that the GM just declares "I had a cool encounter for you guys but they are never going to get past Bob, they die". Even simple weapons like light crossbow (80/320) & sling (30/120) have a range that can reach an entire table covering chessex battlemat. Martial ranged weapons like the heavy crossbow (100/400) musket (40/120) & longbow (150/SIX HUNDRED).

All of those confidently stand in "rods from god" style orbital bombardment when you consider the realities of how d&d movement/combat works. Sure those might be the ranges for what some of those weapons could accomplish with "drop it in the ground & hope someone is there" mass volley fire but the mechanical results are what those weapons might do while in close range that might even be considered very close range. Even just limiting to short range an opponent with a move speed of 30-10 against the group's own "and I move back 30ft after shooting my full attack chain" will never reach the party without sprinting. Even if the target does sprint it can be trivially nullified if the party occasionally sprints or has a mix of push/slow ranged weapons
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Eldritch blast + eldritch spear + repelling blast have existed in the game since day 1.
Yea that's an issue too but it's one clearly trying to match ranged weapons.

And keep in mind. You can only use 1 property at a time, and slow doesn't stack.
I'm not finding anything to suggest that extends to the group itself. Can you point out the text that prevents Alice with her Push crossbow & Bob with his slow longbow from working together to use both those properties each round?

Ediy:heck rules as written the switching weapons section looks like it would allow them to eaxh use both weapons every round if they have extra attack.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Okay, you slow one guy 2 squares of movement over 600ft.

What are you doing about the other five guys charging you?

Or if the DM adopts the same amazing encounter building technology as deals with the 'problem' of fliers: a building or trees.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
Yea that's an issue too but it's one clearly trying to match ranged weapons.


I'm not finding anything to suggest that extends to the group itself. Can you point out the text that prevents Alice with her Push crossbow & Bob with his slow longbow from working together to use both those properties each round?
At the point where you have multiple characters burning similar resources to do similar things one expects them to be very good at it. Having two spellcasters with burning spheres gets pretty absurd, too.
 

mellored

Legend
I'm not finding anything to suggest that extends to the group itself. Can you point out the text that prevents Alice with her Push crossbow & Bob with his slow longbow from working together to use both those properties each round?
The same place where you have a wizard casts gust of wind, the druid casts spiked growth, and then they spam Ray of frost. Maybe another player can throw web on the pile for good measure.

Letting the fighter do it too isn't suddenly breaking the game.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
At the point where you have multiple characters burning similar resources to do similar things one expects them to be very good at it. Having two spellcasters with burning spheres gets pretty absurd, too.
You can either equip or unequip one weapon
when you make an attack as part of this action.
You do so either before or after the attack. If you
equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need
to use it for that attack.
Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from
a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a
container. Unequipping a weapon includes
sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

There's a reason why I've called this a problem every packet so far.

The same place where you have a wizard casts gust of wind, the druid casts spiked growth, and then they spam Ray of frost. Maybe another player can throw web on the pile for good measure.

Letting the fighter do it too isn't suddenly breaking the game.
Yes but can a wizard and druid each cast all of those spells every round basically forever(given ammo weight/carry capacity)?
 

Incenjucar

Legend
You can either equip or unequip one weapon
when you make an attack as part of this action.
You do so either before or after the attack. If you
equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need
to use it for that attack.
Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from
a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a
container. Unequipping a weapon includes
sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

There's a reason why I've called this a problem every packet so far.


Yes but can a wizard and druid each cast all of those spells every round basically forever(given ammo weight/carry capacity)?
This is the stuff that fighters get instead of Wish.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
This is the stuff that fighters get instead of Wish.
Mastery comes at level one. Extra attack at 5 wish is what... 18th? Can a caster go collect their spell slots from the battlefield after a fight like arrows & crossbow bolts?

This isn't a balance problem, it's anunfun problem.
 


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