D&D 5E ranger getting caught all of time---What to do?

[Olaf the Stout]

What is the relationship between the Rogue players and the DM?

It sounds like the DM is either:

- rolling really well for the Rogues Stealth rolls/rolling really poorly for their opponents' Perception rolls (if he is not using passive Perception)
- misinterpreting the rules in a way that advantages the Rogues and/or disadvantages the Ranger
- arbitrarily helping out the Rogues/screwing over the Ranger

The only other possibility is that Rogues have a much higher Steal skill than the Ranger (whether due to higher stats and/or Expertise or due to misreading the rules).

In any case, I think it is something that needs to be discussed out of game to get to the bottom of it.

 

[asjwolverine]

One of the rogues is his daughter and I know that they are secretely stealing from chests, etc. My character doesn't know tho. Must be favortism or he just doesn't understand the ranger and its abilities

 

[Amatiel]

Maybe I am reading some of these posts incorrectly, but there seems to be some consensus here that passive perception is something you have to "actively engage in" . Doesn't that pretty much ignore the word passive ?
Passive ...Definition = not participating readily or actively; not involving active participation - This is the dictionary meaning of the word passive.. Seems pretty clear you aren't required to take any action, or to state any intention you are ingaged in Perception, but that it is simply what you are aware of at any given time so long as you are conscious and aware ?
To require a character to state that they are engaged in Perception of their environment - That is an actual Action and is called the Search Action under available Actions, and allows a creature to make an active Perception skill check in combat as there action.
If a creature was required to say they are alert/engaged in Perception activity, rogues/ambushes would surprise you 99% of the time.. Makes rogue types pretty damn awesome. Also, would mean the first feat I took in your campaign would be Alert, which is an awesome feat anyway, but in that style of campaign, be pretty much mandatory!

 

[NotActuallyTim]

Passive is a game term, and game terms are somewhat notorious in D&D for having weak or non existent connections to real life language. Passive could really mean anything the writers want, and if they didn't communicate it clearly, then for all we know it means 'when hopping on one leg and reciting the DMG backwards.'

 

[iserith]

Maybe I am reading some of these posts incorrectly, but there seems to be some consensus here that passive perception is something you have to "actively engage in" . Doesn't that pretty much ignore the word passive ?
Passive ...Definition = not participating readily or actively; not involving active participation - This is the dictionary meaning of the word passive.. Seems pretty clear you aren't required to take any action, or to state any intention you are ingaged in Perception, but that it is simply what you are aware of at any given time so long as you are conscious and aware ?
To require a character to state that they are engaged in Perception of their environment - That is an actual Action and is called the Search Action under available Actions, and allows a creature to make an active Perception skill check in combat as there action.
If a creature was required to say they are alert/engaged in Perception activity, rogues/ambushes would surprise you 99% of the time.. Makes rogue types pretty damn awesome. Also, would mean the first feat I took in your campaign would be Alert, which is an awesome feat anyway, but in that style of campaign, be pretty much mandatory!

"A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn’t involve any die rolls." (Basic Rules, page 59.)

Passive is referring to not rolling. The character is actively doing something. The DM determines this something has an uncertain outcome which calls for a check. (Basic Rules, page 58.) If the thing the character is doing is a repeated task, then a passive check is appropriate to resolve the action. (Basic Rules, page 59.) If the character is not performing a task repeatedly, it's an ability check.

As a player, you are required to describe what you want to do. That is Step 2 of the basic conversation of the game. (Basic Rules, page 3.) It is, however, a safe assumption at most tables that a character is staying alert for danger unless otherwise stated. A character engaged in activities at least as distracting as navigating, map-making, foraging, or tracking cannot stay alert for danger at the same time (Basic Rules, page 64-65), though a ranger can be an exception (Players Handbook, page 91). Thus, the passive Perception does not apply.

 

[Lord Twig]

Maybe I am reading some of these posts incorrectly, but there seems to be some consensus here that passive perception is something you have to "actively engage in" . Doesn't that pretty much ignore the word passive ?
Passive ...Definition = not participating readily or actively; not involving active participation - This is the dictionary meaning of the word passive.. Seems pretty clear you aren't required to take any action, or to state any intention you are ingaged in Perception, but that it is simply what you are aware of at any given time so long as you are conscious and aware ?
To require a character to state that they are engaged in Perception of their environment - That is an actual Action and is called the Search Action under available Actions, and allows a creature to make an active Perception skill check in combat as there action.
If a creature was required to say they are alert/engaged in Perception activity, rogues/ambushes would surprise you 99% of the time.. Makes rogue types pretty damn awesome. Also, would mean the first feat I took in your campaign would be Alert, which is an awesome feat anyway, but in that style of campaign, be pretty much mandatory!

You are correct. What you have on the forums here are a bunch of rule lawyers (myself included). So it is generally safe to ignore us when we start getting too pedantic. A passive perception check is just that, passive.

For example, say you are a peasant at home doing laundry. Are you looking for trouble? No.

But there is a goblin hiding outside. When you go out to hang up your laundry do you have a chance to spot him? Of course you do, that is your passive perception. Stating that you have to actively be looking for something to spot anything is ridiculous.

To the OP. You might consider having the Ranger pick up Fog Cloud as a spell. It's good for escapes when your Stealth check fails. Rangers are unfortunately severely limited on spell choices, but Fog Cloud is pretty solid all the way up to high levels.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Stating that you have to actively be looking for something to spot anything is ridiculous.

I think it is equally fair to say that claiming that "I have my eyes open" does not satisfy the requirement of looking for something is ridiculous.

That's what I was trying to get at earlier when I mentioned the different interpretations of "not searching."
[MENTION=54629]pukunui[/MENTION], I find there not to actually be a difference between a passive check and a passive score due to the portion of the Passive Checks entry which states "The game refers to a passive check total as a score." You are free to disagree, of course.

 

[pukunui]

You are free to disagree, of course.

Thank you.

 

[S'mon]

You are correct. What you have on the forums here are a bunch of rule lawyers (myself included). So it is generally safe to ignore us when we start getting too pedantic. A passive perception check is just that, passive.

For example, say you are a peasant at home doing laundry. Are you looking for trouble? No.

But there is a goblin hiding outside. When you go out to hang up your laundry do you have a chance to spot him? Of course you do, that is your passive perception. Stating that you have to actively be looking for something to spot anything is ridiculous.

I use passive perception as the 'on patrol' or 'sentry' score - if you're at home hanging up laundry and have no reason to expect a threat I'd definitely use a lower number to spot goblins in your garden, maybe PP-5. If you know there are goblins around and are wary then Passive Per would be fine.

 

[BoldItalic]

One of the rogues is his daughter and I know that they are secretely stealing from chests, etc. My character doesn't know tho. Must be favortism or he just doesn't understand the ranger and its abilities

Based on what you have told us in this thread, and reading between the lines quite outrageously, I'm going to offer you two suggestions:

1. You need to read the players handbook or, if that is not available, the free-to-download PDFs that contain the same text. You need to read the sections on "How to Play" and the descriptions of the capabilities of each of the classes in your current game, up to level three at least. Ideally, work through it with your son so that he understands as well.

The reason I'm suggesting this is that you seemed initially to think that Rangers are essentially invisible and that stealth and hiding are based on Wisdom, both of which tell me that you are playing a game without knowing the rules. It always helps to read the manual

The Basic Rules will tell you about the playing rules, Fighters and Rogues but for Rangers you need to supplement that with the Ranger part of the Systems Reference Document. They are each extracts from the 5e Handbooks and they are different selections but with a lot of overlap.

2. You need to talk to your brother-as-DM about his apparent favoritism and explain that it is spoiling the enjoyment of the game. He may not realize he is doing it. It may be that his daughter and her friend are playing Rogues-as-Naughty-Children in the gleeful expectation that Daddy will indulge them, and they are getting away with it. I'm treading on thin ice, here, and I might be completely wrong about how your family works, in which case ignore my reasoning but talk to your brother about your concerns anyway. Nothing will get fixed until you do.

Good luck