D&D (2024) Ranger playtest discussion

[Minigiant]

I am sorry, but can't see the nerf for the hunter class.
They took the best options and killed the useless lvl 11 ability.

Conjure barrage is trash unless your DM is sending 1HD kobolds and goblins at you at level 11 all the time. Not orcs. Goblins.

Volley >>>>>> Conjure Barrage as a 1st level spell

 

[Neonchameleon]

Wait, what interesting exploration abilities did the 5e Ranger have to lose in the first place?

They lost just about everything even vaguely exploration themed; they took the Tasha's explorer ability and turned it into its parts.

Which (ironically given other exchanges) means basically what's left is "magical fighter". And the problem with the original 2014 ranger wasn't the theming - it's that the Natural Explorer and Primal Awareness abilities were all useless

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Conjure barrage is trash unless your DM is sending 1HD kobolds and goblins at you at level 11 all the time. Not orcs. Goblins.

Volley >>>>>> Conjure Barrage as a 1st level spell

But you can cast it as level 3 spell.
That said, volley was equally trash, but at least the better of the two options.

Also, the ranger subclasses were all not playing well with their own abilities and the ranger base class, which also had some problems.

- bonus action starved

- the only spell they ever used was hunter's mark, because of concentration.

- extra attack worked woth the attack action, as does twf. Volley and Multiattack were not based on an action (not attack action).

So even if the power level is not hit correctly, the ranger is a lot more fun this way, as the abilities at least are all useful and work well with each other.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They lost just about everything even vaguely exploration themed; they took the Tasha's explorer ability and turned it into its parts.

At least they have expertise now. And at least abilities that sounded fun on paper but were very unfun in play are removed.

I think the tasha's primal awareness is missing though.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Interesting..

Lightning arrow also does d8s. Why isn't Lightning Arrow an option to downcast? Or will that be another subclass.

I think this might become a general or more widely used rule if it is liked, if I interpret what Crawford told us in the video correctly.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

But you can cast it as level 3 spell.

Which still does 3d8 dmg? Which is the whole problem with the spell. At lv9+ when you get access to it, that is not exactly a worthwhile value.

I mean, it's funny how it enables Ranger to Dynasty Warriors an army of nobodies, but besides that.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Which still does 3d8 dmg? Which is the whole problem with the spell. At lv9+ when you get access to it, that is not exactly a worthwhile value.

I mean, it's funny how it enables Ranger to Dynasty Warriors an army of nobodies, but besides that.

As I already said elsewhere: the spell is bad and in need of a general buff.
A 3rd level spell should do at least 4d8 damage (thunderwave upcast) if not 5d8.

Buff the spell in general and you are looking at a good ability.

 

[Minigiant]

But you can cast it as level 3 spell.

For 3d8 damage with a low DC in a 60 cone

You could Volley for 1d8+Dex + Other bonuses at will before.

- the only spell they ever used was hunter's mark, because of concentration.

No. The only spell they used was HM because most other ranger combat spells stunked and your campagin ended before you got them. The only good ones were.

Hunter's Mark
Spike Growth
Lightning Arrow
Swift Quiver
And Conjure X spells

The main problem the ranger had is the the design team thought the Ranger was too powerful but the fandom thought the Ranger was too weak. If you listen to Crawford and Kendrick they think this ranger is very strong. It's stronger but it's still weak unless the high level feats are designed to buff it.

1d10 Hunter's Mark at level 18. Let's throw a party.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

For 3d8 damage with a low DC in a 60 cone



could Volley for 1d8+Dex + Other bonuses at will before.


No. The only spell they used was HM because most other ranger combat spells stunked and your campagin ended before you got them. The only good ones were.

Hunter's Mark
Spike Growth
Lightning Arrow
Swift Quiver
And Conjure X spells

The main problem the ranger had is the the design team thought the Ranger was too powerful but the fandom thought the Ranger was too weak. If you listen to Crawford and Kendrick they think this ranger is very strong. It's stronger but it's still weak unless the high level feats are designed to buff it.

1d10 Hunter's Mark at level 18. Let's throw a party.

To reiterate once again: the spell is bad (as most other ranger combat spells) , but the ability it replaced was even worse.
Hunters mark costs your concentration as does swift quiver... So bad synergy.

The ranger was strong. "Fandom" in "loud voices" or optimizers think it is bad.
At our table ranger is well loved and powerful.
I have 2 problems with the ranger: it was hit with the nerf hammer (or colletaral damage by general rules changes) short before release, leaving him with abilities that did not play well together. This was noticed and critizised by me and our first ranger player who continued to play his DnDnext ranger.

So even if the numbers are not correct now, at least the chassis works much more seemlessly.

Numbers can still be balanced.

 

[Minigiant]

To reiterate once again: the spell is bad (as most other ranger combat spells) , but the ability it replaced was even worse.

Again Volley is way better than Conjure Barrage by a lot.

Downcasting Conjure Barrage is cool. But it is weak. Ranger's already get Hail of Thorns that does almost the same thing and that spell is also weak.

The ranger was strong. "Fandom" in "loud voices" or optimizers think it is bad.

The ranger was "strong". It had a ton of exploits. Conjure spells. GWM/SS abuse stacked on Hunter's mark. Dipping into rogue or fighter easy.

So even if the numbers are not correct now, at least the chassis works much more seemlessly.

Numbers can still be balanced.

Seemless doesn't mean strong.

You were not supposed to stack buffs in 5e. That's the whole point of Concentration.

People wanted to stack buffs because the ranger was weak and if you stacked Hunter's Mark with other spells, the class would feel strong. Concentrationless Hunter's Mark is meh because Cordon of Arrows and Hail of Thorns, the spell that don't compete with Hunter's mark anymore are bad.The Good Ranger spells, Swift Quiver and Lightning Arrow are "high level" for rangers.

Concentraionless HM means every combat heavy ranger will be spamming Conjure Animals, Enchance Ability, Entangle, and Pass Without Trace because there aren't many other good ranger spells. That's not going to get annoying for DMs.