D&D (2024) Ranger playtest discussion

[Micah Sweet]

L

What I think it comes down to is this burning desire by some players to have non-magical "magic". You see it in discussions of fighters. You see it in discussions of nonmagical rangers. You even see it in discussions of psionics. There is a vocal group of players who want all the benefits of magic without casting spells, and usually that equates to "no components, can't be dispelled/countered, etc." Which of course are all big elements of balancing spellcasting. I'm not saying people want nonmagical magic to cheese the system, but hot damn are there a lot of people who want powers akin to spellcasting without actually calling it spellcasting.

Its just possible that the process of casting spells as 5e defines it doesn't appeal to everyone, for every type of PC, in every situation.

Weird.

 

[Remathilis]

Its just possible that the process of casting spells as 5e defines it doesn't appeal to everyone, for every type of PC, in every situation.

Weird.

I get it. I too would like all the benefits of spellcasting without having to worry about verbal and somatic components, costly material components, anti-magic, magic resistance, dispel magic, counterspell, spell slots, loss of concentration, etc.

 

[Branduil]

Maybe the reason players want the benefits of spellcasting is because they recognize that every edition sans 4 is quite favorable to spellcasters.

 

[James Gasik]

Maybe the reason players want the benefits of spellcasting is because they recognize that every edition sans 4 is quite favorable to spellcasters.

Even 4e, once you take rituals into account. Martial Practices weren't anything in the same ballpark.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I get it. I too would like all the benefits of spellcasting without having to worry about verbal and somatic components, costly material components, anti-magic, magic resistance, dispel magic, counterspell, spell slots, loss of concentration, etc.

It's weird to me that when there is a disagreement about class thematics, so many people are willing to attribute the other side's position to a pure bad faith desire for power creep.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

L

What I think it comes down to is this burning desire by some players to have non-magical "magic". You see it in discussions of fighters. You see it in discussions of nonmagical rangers. You even see it in discussions of psionics. There is a vocal group of players who want all the benefits of magic without casting spells, and usually that equates to "no components, can't be dispelled/countered, etc." Which of course are all big elements of balancing spellcasting. I'm not saying people want nonmagical magic to cheese the system, but hot damn are there a lot of people who want powers akin to spellcasting without actually calling it spellcasting.

Then on the flip side there is also a vocal group that do not want anything sniffing of magic that are not spells.

 

[gorice]

L

What I think it comes down to is this burning desire by some players to have non-magical "magic". You see it in discussions of fighters. You see it in discussions of nonmagical rangers. You even see it in discussions of psionics. There is a vocal group of players who want all the benefits of magic without casting spells, and usually that equates to "no components, can't be dispelled/countered, etc." Which of course are all big elements of balancing spellcasting. I'm not saying people want nonmagical magic to cheese the system, but hot damn are there a lot of people who want powers akin to spellcasting without actually calling it spellcasting.

Put simply: I think a lot of people want non-magical characters to be able to do cool things and have interesting choices. It's not about gaming the system, its about a fantasy in which people who aren't wizards also get to be interesting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I get it. I too would like all the benefits of spellcasting without having to worry about verbal and somatic components, costly material components, anti-magic, magic resistance, dispel magic, counterspell, spell slots, loss of concentration, etc.

So your argument is that everything should operate just like spells, with all the stuff you listed, regardless of the fictional justification for having the ability?

 

[Neonchameleon]

L

What I think it comes down to is this burning desire by some players to have non-magical "magic". You see it in discussions of fighters. You see it in discussions of nonmagical rangers. You even see it in discussions of psionics. There is a vocal group of players who want all the benefits of magic without casting spells, and usually that equates to "no components, can't be dispelled/countered, etc." Which of course are all big elements of balancing spellcasting. I'm not saying people want nonmagical magic to cheese the system, but hot damn are there a lot of people who want powers akin to spellcasting without actually calling it spellcasting.

Whereas what I think it comes down to is this burning desire by some players to declare anything that goes above and beyond what an average D&D player can do physically to be magic. And then to boost the wizard by allowing them to do almost anything (except healing) that anyone else can do that's preternatural.

Magic is magic. But not everything in myth or story that's preternatural is or should be magic.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Put simply: I think a lot of people want non-magical characters to be able to do cool things and have interesting choices. It's not about gaming the system, its about a fantasy in which people who aren't wizards also get to be interesting.

Indeed.

I also grew up on Arthurian myth. Galahad's strength was as the strength of ten because his heart was pure. Not because he woke up every day. looked in his spellbook, and cast Giant's Strength. When The Green Knight let his head be cut off and put it back it wasn't because he was using an anti-decapitation spell or a death ward. It was because he was who he was.

I also grew up on Greek myth. When Hercules tagged out Atlas and literally held up the world on his shoulders it wasn't because he cast either a super-strength spell or cast Telekinesis on the World. When he cleaned the Augean Stables by rerouting two rivers he didn't reroute them by casting Control Water. And yes he was a demigod - but so was Circe. If demigods aren't allowed for inspiration we should cut the wizards back to realistic inspirations as well.

I just don't get the desire to turn the back on D&D's inspirations and declare that anything going above and beyond the norm must be a spell.