Ranger - Twin Strike kick to the groin?

[Zurai]

yeah, by the raw it doesn't work

Yes, it does. Or at the very least, the RAW is silent.

At the worst you could wield the bow as an improvised melee weapon in one hand and an unarmed strike in the other hand.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

With the OPs ruling all the ranger would have ended up doing would have amounted to a basic unarmed melee attack anyways. The fact that the ranger used Twin Strike didnt really make any mechanical difference. In the end its still just a STR vs AC with 1[W] for damage.

 

[generalhenry]

At the worst you could wield the bow as an improvised melee weapon in one hand and an unarmed strike in the other hand.

so... a two handed ranged weapon now counts as a one hand melee weapon? Which you don't even attack with, instead you use it to qualify for kicking twice??

If you starting ruling that improvised weapons counted as wielding weapons what's to stop a shield from being counted as an off hand improvised weapon?

Yeah the rules are a little awkward, but the intention is plenty clear, two melee weapons you're going to attack with.

by the raw he can kick, head butt, punch, arrow stab etc for 1d4.

If you stretch the raw he can hit with his bow for 1d8


But TWF with a longbow and bare hand?

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Yes, it does. Or at the very least, the RAW is silent.

At the worst you could wield the bow as an improvised melee weapon in one hand and an unarmed strike in the other hand.

Well a one handed improvised weapon weighs between 1 lb. and 5 lb. A bow is either 2lb or 3lb depending on whether or not its a longbow or shortbow, so yeah, that should work as well.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Ranger also lost str bonus to damage.

 

[generalhenry]

by the raw he can kick, head butt, punch, arrow stab etc for 1d4.

note to self, make a cool arrow stab feat or power

 

[Zurai]

so... a two handed ranged weapon now counts as a one hand melee weapon? Which you don't even attack with, instead you use it to qualify for kicking twice??

I never said anything at all about kicking. I said it could be wielded as a one-handed improvised weapon, with an unarmed strike using the other hand. And, yes, you can use a bow as a one-handed improvised weapon - the only reason it's a two handed ranged weapon is you have to use a hand to hold it and a hand to pull back the bowstring. Since you're presumably not using the bowstring except when shooting the bow, there's nothing preventing you from using the other hand to do whatever.

Think about it. If it had to be wielded in two hands at all times, you could never load a bow.

If you starting ruling that improvised weapons counted as wielding weapons what's to stop a shield from being counted as an off hand improvised weapon?

Nothing. Considering that improvised weapons are almost completely worthless in 4E, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

so... a two handed ranged weapon now counts as a one hand melee weapon? Which you don't even attack with, instead you use it to qualify for kicking twice??

It depends on it weight, but think about it, what, except for something of significant size or weight, cant be used as and improves weapon?

If you starting ruling that improvised weapons counted as wielding weapons what's to stop a shield from being counted as an off hand improvised weapon?

And whats wrong with that? What it is essentially going to amount to is that a ranger will be giving up a significant amount of damage and bonuses to hit for a bonus to AC.

Yeah the rules are a little awkward, but the intention is plenty clear, two melee weapons you're going to attack with.

by the raw he can kick, head butt, punch, arrow stab etc for 1d4.

If you stretch the raw he can hit with his bow for 1d8


But TWF with a longbow and bare hand?

Yeah, and now the only question is what is considred a melee weapon? Unarmed attacks are considered to have the weapon keyword (page 56 of the PHB), so obviously they count.

The question now is can a bow be an improvised weapon? I would say yes. First of all its going to be a one handed improvised weapon because of the weight requirements for one handed and two handed improvised weapons. Second, how does it not make sense that a bow can be used for hitting, however ineffective it might be?

In the end it comes down to they both count, and a reanger, by RAW, can use an improvised weapon and an unarmed attack in order to use his two weapon fighting powers (not the feat!), but he is going to be extreamly ineffective in comparison to a ranger that is actually using weapons.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Ranger also lost str bonus to damage.

Yeah, he would have actually be better off doing a basic melee attack.

 

[generalhenry]

Nothing. Considering that improvised weapons are almost completely worthless in 4E, I don't see a problem with it.

...besides such things as all sword and board fighters qualifying for two weapon fighting.


It's not the attacks I object to, it's qualifying as wielding two weapons.

by your interpretation so long as you have one free hand and one 1-5 lb object you qualify. AKA it would be nearly impossible not to qualify.