Rant After Play-Test

[ren1999]

I feel insulted. We're on EN World here having really beneficial arguments on how to improve the game such as get rid of the Fort, Reflex, Will defenses and use ability scores, get rid of 1/2 level to-hit increases and we're not even being paid. We are fans and we play the game.

But I'm play-testing this and these obvious math errors almost seem intentional, like someone who is not a fan is playing a joke on us. Seriously, why is the Wizard only allowed to cast 3 spells per day? Why do intoxicated characters get damage reduction?

This was also a problem with 4th edition. I think someone should be fired for doing a terrible job organizing the material for this play-test.

I'm angry. Under magical attacks for the Elf Wizard it says that you get an attack roll which is intelligence modifier +3 and an additional +2. 3+2=5. So why does the attack roll for Ray of Frost say 1d20+6?

We buy these games so that people get paid to check math like this before rolling out a play-test. Now that in itself is nothing to get too angry about. But when these obvious mistakes are everywhere without explanation for the increase and decrease in numbers, I'm starting to think that someone doesn't care and rushed this material out without editing it.

Someone on this forum said that "It is foolish to expect different results from the same people." Wise man, that one.

 

[Daag]

Wizards are able to cast 3 1st level spells a day, and then can cast as many minor spells as they want.

And how do we know the math behind the characters is wrong when we don't know the character creation rules? Maybe the wizard is best at magic like the fighter is supposed to be best at fighting and they get a +1 bonus to casting their spells.

Perhaps it is a math error. Perhaps the numbers they gave us are intentional.

It's a playtest at a very early stage. They want us to try characters as they've given them to us, not as we think they should be because we have an incomplete understanding of the character generation rules.

I find some of the numbers strange, and it can be fun to find out where they come from. But since I don't have the complete rules, I shrug it off and just run it as is.

 

[Oni]

You do understand that this is a playtest and not a final product, that there will be errors and experimentation to see what works and what doesn't? I'm, frankly, not certain why you would be angry. To be so at this point seems somewhat unreasonable. Perhaps playtesting isn't for you, and you would be better served by waiting for the final product.

 

[RangerWickett]

I say you should demand your money back!!!

 

[slobster]

You are upset by the math errors, but the two things you specifically mentioned, wizard spells per day and the intoxicated condition, are problems with the game's design, not math errors. If you don't like that drunkenness gives you DR (admittedly silly) or that wizards have few spells per day (they get at-wills which make up for it in my opinion), give them feedback! But it certainly was not an insult aimed at you.

Math errors in the stat blocks, like weapon damage dice, seem odd to me as well given the amount of fanfare the playtest got. But hey, it's an early iteration. If they really do keep releasing improved versions of the game for us to playtest, reflecting our feedback and the evolution of the product, I'll forgive and forget. If not, well I still didn't pay anything for it. I hope they realize that such a thing might affect whether I end up actually buying their product, though.

 

[Morrus]

I feel insulted. We're on EN World here having really beneficial arguments on how to improve the game such as get rid of the Fort, Reflex, Will defenses and use ability scores, get rid of 1/2 level to-hit increases and we're not even being paid. We are fans and we play the game.

But I'm play-testing this and these obvious math errors almost seem intentional, like someone who is not a fan is playing a joke on us. Seriously, why is the Wizard only allowed to cast 3 spells per day? Why do intoxicated characters get damage reduction?

This was also a problem with 4th edition. I think someone should be fired for doing a terrible job organizing the material for this play-test.

I'm angry. Under magical attacks for the Elf Wizard it says that you get an attack roll which is intelligence modifier +3 and an additional +2. 3+2=5. So why does the attack roll for Ray of Frost say 1d20+6?

We buy these games so that people get paid to check math like this before rolling out a play-test. Now that in itself is nothing to get too angry about. But when these obvious mistakes are everywhere without explanation for the increase and decrease in numbers, I'm starting to think that someone doesn't care and rushed this material out without editing it.

Someone on this forum said that "It is foolish to expect different results from the same people." Wise man, that one.

So you're angry because your playtest revealed some issues with the system? Should you not instead feel elated that the playtest is therefore working as intended? This is what a playtest is for; you don't have to participate, but if you do then your job is - essentially - finding errors and problems.

This is exactly what playtests are like. Especially early ones.

I'd dial back a bit and calm down. Feeling "angry" and "insulted" because you found issues suggests that, perhaps, a playtest process isn't for you. Let others do the playtesting and buy the final game when it's released; sounds like that would be better for your blood pressure*. At that point, you can vote with your wallet if you don't like the result.

*IANAD**

**IATD
(Bonus XP for anyone who figures out what the second one is!)

 

[ren1999]

Wizards are able to cast 3 1st level spells a day, and then can cast as many minor spells as they want.

And how do we know the math behind the characters is wrong when we don't know the character creation rules? Maybe the wizard is best at magic like the fighter is supposed to be best at fighting and they get a +1 bonus to casting their spells.

I'm keeping this in mind and continuing the play-test.

Here is a transcript of an encounter with 5 Gnolls as found in the Bestiary.

MoradinCleric's Warhammer vs ac+sit mod:+0=21 vs Gnoll 3's 14 is a hit! Gnoll 3 takes 8 points damage leaving 3 hit points.
Gnoll 5's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=20 vs DwarfFighter's 15 is a hit! DwarfFighter takes 5 points damage leaving 15 hit points.
Gnoll 1's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=18 vs DwarfFighter's 15 is a hit! DwarfFighter takes 5 points damage leaving 10 hit points.
HalflingRogue's Dagger vs ac+sit mod:+0=7 vs Gnoll 1's 14 is a miss!
Gnoll 3's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=16 vs ElfWizard's 11 is a hit! ElfWizard takes 6 points damage leaving 10 hit points.
ElfWizard's ShockingGrasp +2 sit mod if target wears armor vs dex+sit mod:+2=17 vs Gnoll 2's 10 is a hit! Gnoll 2 takes 14 points damage leaving -3 hit points.
Gnoll 4's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=12 vs MoradinCleric's 18 is a miss!
MoradinCleric's Warhammer vs ac+sit mod:+0=19 vs Gnoll 3's 14 is a hit! Gnoll 3 takes 9 points damage leaving -6 hit points.
Gnoll 5's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=8 vs DwarfFighter's 15 is a miss!
Gnoll 1's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=10 vs DwarfFighter's 15 is a miss!
DwarfFighter's GreatAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=11 vs Gnoll 1's 14 is a miss!
HalflingRogue's Dagger vs ac+sit mod:+0=23 vs Gnoll 1's 14 is a hit! Gnoll 1 takes 6 points damage leaving 5 hit points.
ElfWizard's ShockingGrasp +2 sit mod if target wears armor vs dex+sit mod:+2=20 vs Gnoll 4's 10 is a hit! Gnoll 4 takes 9 points damage leaving 2 hit points.
Gnoll 4's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=23 vs ElfWizard's 11 is a hit! ElfWizard takes 8 points damage leaving 2 hit points.
MoradinCleric's Warhammer vs ac+sit mod:+0=8 vs Gnoll 4's 14 is a miss!
Gnoll 5's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=4 vs DwarfFighter's 15 is a miss!
Gnoll 1's HandAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=19 vs DwarfFighter's 15 is a hit! DwarfFighter takes 3 points damage leaving 7 hit points.
DwarfFighter's GreatAxe vs ac+sit mod:+0=21 vs Gnoll 1's 14 is a hit! Gnoll 1 takes 18 points damage leaving -13 hit points.
HalflingRogue's ThrownDagger ranged 20 vs ac+sit mod:+0=9 vs Gnoll 5's 14 is a miss!
ElfWizard's ShockingGrasp +2 sit mod if target wears armor vs dex+sit mod:+2=17 vs Gnoll 4's 10 is a hit! Gnoll 4 takes 14 points damage leaving -12 hit points.
MoradinCleric's Warhammer vs ac+sit mod:+0=23 vs Gnoll 5's 14 is a hit! Gnoll 5 takes 12 points damage leaving -1 hit points.

 

[El Mahdi]

**IATD
(Bonus XP for anyone who figures out what the second one is!)

Knowing you a bit, I'd say

Spoiler

Dr. Who. "I am THE Doctor."

 

[Morrus]

Knowing you a bit, I'd say

Spoiler

Dr. Who. "I am THE Doctor."

Correct!

 

[the Jester]

EDIT: Removed snark.

We buy these games so that people get paid to check math like this before rolling out a play-test.

Who did you pay to participate in the playtest? How much did the charge?

You do realize that checking the math is part of what playtesting is, right?

Nobody is forcing you to join the playtest. If it gets you all worked up like this, maybe you should just wait until the finished game instead.