Rant on d20
- Thread starter vturlough
- Start date
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi all! 
Ryan (Dancey) delivers some good issues. I'll try and address them in turn with some possible thoughts on solutions:
My opinion is this can be done with Skill.
eg. A 20th-level character has their higher BAB (and Feats) add (significant) parrying penalties to their opponents.
Think of Driz'zt vs. Artemis Entreri. They rarely hit each other.
In encounters with multiple enemies characters can divide their BAB amongst the opponents (in both attack and defense).
Likewise they can divide their own BAB to deliver multiple attacks if they so wish.
Power Attack becomes automatic. Any surplus above the number to hit is added to damage.
Hit points represent Body Mass.
CON (bonus) represents Toughness.
eg. a 180lb human starts with 18 hit points.
an ogre may have 30-35hp
Hill Giants 110
etc.
With CON 14 for Toughness +2 (toughness reduces damage).
Armour also works like Damage Reduction (as with Toughness). I'm favour double the current AC bonuses (ie. Full Platemail reduces damage by 16)
(In a throwback to the 1st Ed. Star Wars RPG rules)
Dealing targets:
Damage < Hit Points (but overcoming toughness and armour) = Scratches (keep totalling when they equal hp thats a Minor wound)
Damage > Hit points = Minor Wound (-2 to all stats)
Damage > x2 Hit Points = Major Wound (all stats halved)
Damage > x3 Hit Points = Critical Wound (iminent incapacitation)
Damage > x4 Hit Points = Death
2 Minor Wounds = Major Wound
2 Major Wounds = Critical Wound
2 Critical Wounds = Death
eg. If falling off a cliff delivers 20d6 damage almost any human would suffer death or be critically wounded. Since I don't advocate hit points naturally increasing.
Shouldn't be too difficult - does anyone have any problems that they think may not work with this new system?
Spells:
Lvl 1: Cure Minor Wound Touch
Lvl 2: Cure Major Wound; Cause Minor Wound Beam
Lvl 3: Cure Critical Wound; Cause Minor Wound Blast or Cone
Lvl 4: Cure Death; Cause Minor Wound Wave
Ryan (Dancey) delivers some good issues. I'll try and address them in turn with some possible thoughts on solutions:
Ryan Dancey said:
My opinion is this can be done with Skill.
eg. A 20th-level character has their higher BAB (and Feats) add (significant) parrying penalties to their opponents.
Think of Driz'zt vs. Artemis Entreri. They rarely hit each other.
In encounters with multiple enemies characters can divide their BAB amongst the opponents (in both attack and defense).
Likewise they can divide their own BAB to deliver multiple attacks if they so wish.
Power Attack becomes automatic. Any surplus above the number to hit is added to damage.
Ryan Dancey said:
Hit points represent Body Mass.
CON (bonus) represents Toughness.
eg. a 180lb human starts with 18 hit points.
an ogre may have 30-35hp
Hill Giants 110
etc.
With CON 14 for Toughness +2 (toughness reduces damage).
Armour also works like Damage Reduction (as with Toughness). I'm favour double the current AC bonuses (ie. Full Platemail reduces damage by 16)
Ryan Dancey said:
(In a throwback to the 1st Ed. Star Wars RPG rules)
Dealing targets:
Damage < Hit Points (but overcoming toughness and armour) = Scratches (keep totalling when they equal hp thats a Minor wound)
Damage > Hit points = Minor Wound (-2 to all stats)
Damage > x2 Hit Points = Major Wound (all stats halved)
Damage > x3 Hit Points = Critical Wound (iminent incapacitation)
Damage > x4 Hit Points = Death
2 Minor Wounds = Major Wound
2 Major Wounds = Critical Wound
2 Critical Wounds = Death
Ryan Dancey said:
eg. If falling off a cliff delivers 20d6 damage almost any human would suffer death or be critically wounded. Since I don't advocate hit points naturally increasing.
Ryan Dancey said:
Shouldn't be too difficult - does anyone have any problems that they think may not work with this new system?
Spells:
Lvl 1: Cure Minor Wound Touch
Lvl 2: Cure Major Wound; Cause Minor Wound Beam
Lvl 3: Cure Critical Wound; Cause Minor Wound Blast or Cone
Lvl 4: Cure Death; Cause Minor Wound Wave
I like Ryan Dancey's list of "wants" for a combat system:
Here's what I want from a "better hit point system":
1) Higher level characters should survive longer in combat than lower level characters, and should be harder for lower level characters to kill.
2) The mechanic should be something very simple to explain and adjudicate.
3) Something should happen to a character at some point after taking some amount of damage that makes that character react to being injured, but doesn't make it impossible for that character to function.
4) Death from various forms of environmental effects should be swift and require extraordinary circumstances to avoid.
5) The game system should enumerate exactly what the damage system is, and should provide methods of interacting with that system which are consistent with that definition.
Here's what I want from a "better hit point system":
1) Higher level characters should survive longer in combat than lower level characters, and should be harder for lower level characters to kill.
2) The mechanic should be something very simple to explain and adjudicate.
3) Something should happen to a character at some point after taking some amount of damage that makes that character react to being injured, but doesn't make it impossible for that character to function.
4) Death from various forms of environmental effects should be swift and require extraordinary circumstances to avoid.
5) The game system should enumerate exactly what the damage system is, and should provide methods of interacting with that system which are consistent with that definition.
Bulletproof Nudity, the hit point version
Bulletproof Nudity [General]
Your tanned and buffed body can withstand massive amounts of damage.
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Sex Appeal, Body to Die For, Cha 15+
Benefit: When fighting without armour, you may add your Cha bonus times your level to your hit points. If you are actually nude (no clothing or magic except jewellery), you add double your Cha bonus times your level instead, and your opponents suffer a 25% miss chance on attacks. A successful Will save by your opponents (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha bonus) negates these benefits for that encounter.
Special: This feat works only on members of the opposite sex, or homosexual members of your own sex.
</erics_grandma>
[*] Sex Appeal and BtDF are feats in the Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, found here:
http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/
<erics_grandma>
Bulletproof Nudity [General]
Your tanned and buffed body can withstand massive amounts of damage.
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Sex Appeal, Body to Die For, Cha 15+
Benefit: When fighting without armour, you may add your Cha bonus times your level to your hit points. If you are actually nude (no clothing or magic except jewellery), you add double your Cha bonus times your level instead, and your opponents suffer a 25% miss chance on attacks. A successful Will save by your opponents (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha bonus) negates these benefits for that encounter.
Special: This feat works only on members of the opposite sex, or homosexual members of your own sex.
</erics_grandma>
[*] Sex Appeal and BtDF are feats in the Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, found here:
http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/
<erics_grandma>
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Incorruptible Soul, the hit point version
Incorruptible Soul [General]
You can turn assaults on your mind into assaults on the body.
Prerequisites: 4th level, Iron Will, Con 13+, Cha 13+
Benefit: When you would be affected by a hostile mind-influencing spell or effect, you can choose to take physical damage instead. You take 1d6 points of damage per spell level of the effect. This damage is automatic and not subject to DR or SR.
Incorruptible Soul [General]
You can turn assaults on your mind into assaults on the body.
Prerequisites: 4th level, Iron Will, Con 13+, Cha 13+
Benefit: When you would be affected by a hostile mind-influencing spell or effect, you can choose to take physical damage instead. You take 1d6 points of damage per spell level of the effect. This damage is automatic and not subject to DR or SR.
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Spirit of Fury, the hit point version
Spirit of Fury [General, Fighter]
You can channel your spirit into your attacks, at a cost.
Prerequisites: BAB +8, Power Attack, Str 13+, Cha 15+
Benefit: Before making a melee attack, you can choose to take 1d6 points of damage. If you hit, you inflict an extra +2d6 points of damage on your foe. You can use this feat once per round, and a number of times per day up to your level.
Spirit of Fury [General, Fighter]
You can channel your spirit into your attacks, at a cost.
Prerequisites: BAB +8, Power Attack, Str 13+, Cha 15+
Benefit: Before making a melee attack, you can choose to take 1d6 points of damage. If you hit, you inflict an extra +2d6 points of damage on your foe. You can use this feat once per round, and a number of times per day up to your level.
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Too Ugly to Die, the hit point version
Too Ugly to Die [General]
You are too ugly to die.
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Toughness, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Cha 13-
Benefit: When fighting without armour, you may add your level x 2 to your hit points. If you are actually nude (no clothing or magic except jewellery), you add your level x 4 instead, and your opponents suffer a 25% miss chance on attacks. A successful Will save by your opponents (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Con bonus) negates these benefits for that encounter.
Special: This feat works only on members of your own sex, or homosexual members of the opposite sex.
Too Ugly to Die [General]
You are too ugly to die.
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Toughness, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Cha 13-
Benefit: When fighting without armour, you may add your level x 2 to your hit points. If you are actually nude (no clothing or magic except jewellery), you add your level x 4 instead, and your opponents suffer a 25% miss chance on attacks. A successful Will save by your opponents (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Con bonus) negates these benefits for that encounter.
Special: This feat works only on members of your own sex, or homosexual members of the opposite sex.
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Re: Re: Combat more deadly... the simple solution...
If you play with armor as DR, and you keep Hit Points high, no one will ever get hurt, and combat will take forever. Play out a test fight between two typical knights in full plate armor with swords and shields. You may want to widen the Crit Threat Ranges or keep Hit Points low.
If you have any hit do one point of Con damage, then you've created an odd parallel Hit Point system where everyone has around 10 Hit Points, but all weapons do one point of damage.
If you play with armor as DR, and you keep Hit Points high, no one will ever get hurt, and combat will take forever. Play out a test fight between two typical knights in full plate armor with swords and shields. You may want to widen the Crit Threat Ranges or keep Hit Points low.
If you have any hit do one point of Con damage, then you've created an odd parallel Hit Point system where everyone has around 10 Hit Points, but all weapons do one point of damage.
A Defense bonus is simple and lets higher-level characters survive longer than lower-level characters.
Under the current system, high-level characters have a huge number of Hit Points that absorb damage with no ill effects. Then, if they land at exactly 0 Hit Points, they're disabled. Then, in that narrow margin between -1 and -10, they're dying.
It shouldn't be hard to spread things out a bit and add a little flavor. Instead of being disabled at 0 hp, perhaps characters are critically injured from 0 down to -hp, losing 1 hp/round and risking a dramatic injury with every hit (Fort Save vs. crippled arm, leg, etc.).
That would be the case with lower Hit Points and higher ACs (and maybe Saves).
Damage could be physical damage without creating an unheroic "BAM! You're dead!" environment.
mmadsen said:
The problem with giving defence bonuses and lowering HP's is that then you must rework how spells do damage or do away with all of the classical direct damage spells like Fireball.
Any changing to the melee combat systems also affects spells, magical items and how they relate to damage. AC due to size should also be looked at.
