D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Thomas Shey]

At all tables? Or at some tables?

Often enough I don't much care about the exceptions.

I guess there is a missing negation in this sentence?

Yeah that was supposed to read "shouldn't"..

Anyway, it seem like my group of friends felt a need of me "being in charge all the way". I do not feel that much of a need myself. As referenced above, they disliked it when I bound myself to the rules.

Their choice. Any general position is going to have exceptions.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It’s not “without qualification” though. The DM has responsibilities. Such as being fair, listening to players, making sure everyone feels included, etc. Pretty much all games make that clear. And even if they didn’t, it’s just a matter of common sense.

Except there's no recourse when they don't except taking a walk. That's pretty weak enforcement. And any attempt by players to push when a GM isn't doing that is reliably read by many people as the sign of "bad players".

 

[Enrahim]

Their choice. Any general position is going to have exceptions.

2 out of the 4 completely separate groups I have run more than one-shot for. The other 2 didn't get into a situation putting this to the test. I think that make the position this situation is exceptional somewhat statistically dubious.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It’s not “without qualification” though. The DM has responsibilities. Such as being fair, listening to players, making sure everyone feels included, etc. Pretty much all games make that clear. And even if they didn’t, it’s just a matter of common sense.

Apparently a number of posters feel none of those responsibilities count unless the book codifies them as explicit requirements that have to be followed or...else, I guess?

 

[Thomas Shey]

2 out of the 4 completely separate groups I have run more than one-shot for. The other 2 didn't get into a situation putting this to the test. I think that make the position this situation is exceptional somewhat statistically dubious.

I'm not basing my position on 4 gaming groups. I'm probably not basing it on 400 gaming groups.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Except there's no recourse when they don't except taking a walk. That's pretty weak enforcement. And any attempt by players to push when a GM isn't doing that is reliably read by many people as the sign of "bad players".

Oh well? I'm sorry, but IMO don't play with people you don't trust (from either direction). You can rail against this all you want, but for me that's how it is.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Apparently a number of posters feel none of those responsibilities count unless the book codifies them as explicit requirements that have to be followed or...else, I guess?

I don't necessarily expect those codified, but I sure expect them to be a solid part of game culture in a way I've never seen it be seriously so in D&D culture, or probably most of the hobby.

(The exception here is I've expressed if you want to change the rules, do house rules; I don't need to be doing a guessing game about how situation X is going to be handled this time).

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh well? I'm sorry, but IMO don't play with people you don't trust (from either direction). You can rail against this all you want, but for me that's how it is.

I've gone through this before, probably with you Micah. Over and above having to go through the tedious process about judgment and intention, teaching people they're supposed to be top down about things does not do any virtues I can see at all, and if you wait for me to stop saying that, you'll be waiting a very long time.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Apparently a number of posters feel none of those responsibilities count unless the book codifies them as explicit requirements that have to be followed or...else, I guess?

I think some people believe everyone in the world is chaotic evil. But if you believe that, you have already lost.

As you imply, I’d doesn’t matter if the rules are explicit, because Dick Dastardly isn’t going to follow them anyway.

 

[Enrahim]

Except there's no recourse when they don't except taking a walk. That's pretty weak enforcement. And any attempt by players to push when a GM isn't doing that is reliably read by many people as the sign of "bad players".

Indeed there is recourse beyond walking. Social enforcement has a lot more tools up it's sleve than that. First I would do is merely pointing out that I found the situation unpleasant. If you have a halfway decent DM that alone should be enough to trigger some emotional response in them that is likely to make them correct course.