D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

Indeed there is recourse beyond walking. Social enforcement has a lot more tools up it's sleve than that. First I would do is merely pointing out that I found the situation unpleasant. If you have a halfway decent DM that alone should be enough to trigger some emotional response in them that is likely to make them correct course.

See "bad players".

Okay, that was overly terse. But watch how often a player that doesn't immediately fold when in a disagreement with a GM gets written off in discussion as the problem. There's never even the faintest hint that they might be in the right and the GM just doesn't want to engage with it for any number of reasons, some maybe valid, but some not nearly as clearly so.
 

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I don't necessarily expect those codified, but I sure expect them to be a solid part of game culture in a way I've never seen it be seriously so in D&D culture, or probably most of the hobby.

(The exception here is I've expressed if you want to change the rules, do house rules; I don't need to be doing a guessing game about how situation X is going to be handled this time).
You expect them to be a solid part of D&D culture in a way they've never been before? How and why do you expect that, and what difference does it make at all to you at tables where you don't play?

And I use transparently-visible house rules regularly.
 

I've gone through this before, probably with you Micah. Over and above having to go through the tedious process about judgment and intention, teaching people they're supposed to be top down about things does not do any virtues I can see at all, and if you wait for me to stop saying that, you'll be waiting a very long time.
Right back at you. Agree to disagree then.
 


You have done a questionnaire with care to avoid bias in participant selection? :O I would absolutely love to see the results! I mean it, I am sort of a statistics nerd!

No. I'm talking about groups I have either played with or extensively talked to people participating in them over the years. I've pretty rarely seen players complain that the GM was too easy going in his approach regarding authority, but I've hit an awful lot of the opposite.
 

No. I'm talking about groups I have either played with or extensively talked to people participating in them over the years. I've pretty rarely seen players complain that the GM was too easy going in his approach regarding authority, but I've hit an awful lot of the opposite.
Keep in mind players have a vested interest in maximizing the power and survivability of their PC.
 

You expect them to be a solid part of D&D culture in a way they've never been before? How and why do you expect that, and what difference does it make at all to you at tables where you don't play?

Because I'm not the only person in the world that has this problem, and the tendency to ignore them is the point.

And I use transparently-visible house rules regularly.

I know you do, but I can't believe you've never noticed how many people seem to consider doing such rather than just ad-hoc decisions all the time some sort of terrible imposition. I mention it only to make it clear that's one place I do expect formal rules and don't have too much tolerance for a GM who's overly casual.
 

Keep in mind players have a vested interest in maximizing the power and survivability of their PC.

So, we're back to paying attention to any perverse incentives among players, but not GMs? That's always a really convenient stance to take in this kind of discussion.

Note all of these were not simply hearsay, either. I got to either play or watch some of them. So yeah, I think my position is well founded.
 


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