<Rant> Where has courtesy gone?

[Chaldfont]

Several years ago my wife and I were on our first vacation--a trip to San Francisco and the Napa Valley. We had a blast--newly married, sampling wine and enjoying the beautiful weather and scenery in a convertible.

But dozens of times during our vacation, mostly at the wineries during tastings, we experience the lousy manners and general crankiness of senior citizens. The first few times we blew it off, but later we noticed a pattern. These old people were very impolite! They cut in lines! They complained about the service (even when it was exceptional)! They cut us off in traffic! They made loud, rude comments about other people!

We were amazed. All of our young lives we had been berated by our elders to be polite and have good manners. There was no practicing what you preach here! We even came up with a motto we wanted to print on t-shirts: "Have some ****ing courtesy!"

Later in life, we've come up with a theory to explain their behavior. We figured that after years and years of being hosed over by mistakes in bills, overcharges in restaurants, the bad behavior of others, etc. they just didn't have the patience for it anymore. Where we would generally take things in stride (like a food order mistake), these older people were just so tired of it that they spoke their mind.

I don't know if this theory is true, but I think about it everytime the phone company screws up my cell phone bill or a server adds 2-3 beers to our bill after a night out at a bar figuring we won't notice.

Hehehe. My wife and I still crack each other up, quoting this ancient guy at one of the vineyards, yelling over the top of the tour guide handing out free samples, "I DIDN'T GET MY SECOND GLASS OF WINE!!!!"

 

[diaglo]

"I DIDN'T GET MY SECOND GLASS OF WINE!!!!"

well, i didn't. and i am still upset with them about it.

 

[sniffles]

After the meeting, he apologized to us for striking our son. I told him, "hey, you did what I couldn't, and I appreciate it."

--The Sigil

Can we give you an award and have you train other parents?

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Random comments....

The comments on "pc" vs manners were pretty telling. I think for some people, its all about "do it my way." They believe that their way is the right way, and those who stray from it - by not saying "sir" or "maam" or by expecting them to change something they say - are wrong. Thats not politeness, that's ettiquette. Thats about a man paying a check for a woman, and the woman thanking him in the right words. Not about picking up the check one time and letting someone else pick it up the next regardless of gender, or being gracious whichever side you fall on.

In the midwest, they will please and thank you and hold the door on their way to vote you out of your civil rights because you're 'different'. Down south they send very courteous and 'correct' emails asking for your help in enforcing their religion on public school children. Sure its possible to have both manners and tolerance, but if I have to choose one, I'll take the tolerance.

I think if you are judging politeness by specific phrases, or modes of address, or a heirarchy of who opens the door, then yes, polite society is doomed. Personally I judge it by general consideration and acknowlegement (verbal or non) and while there's room for improvement, I think things are going ok.

Here's a snapshot of modern politeness.... A young woman (me) is standing on a subway train on her way to work, as are several men. A single seat opens up. Everyone stays standing, glancing around. If one of us spots someone with packages or a child or an older person, we gesture to the seat. If not, we all sort of stand there, akwardly unwilling to be the one who takes the seat, but equally unwilling to make someone else the "weaker" one who needs the seat. So the seat stays there until the next stop and gets filled in the bustle of more people leaving and getting on. Its odd and funny in retrospect, but it has a politeness to it....

 

[reveal]

It's not a statement specifically about Maryland, just about people in more urban areas. I find that - outside of the midwest - courtesy is not as common place.

In Omaha, courtesy is a joke. You meet some nice people but you meet a lot more that aren't. In Council Bluffs, right next door, a majority of the people are a lot more courteous.

I think it all depends on perspective. I've lived in a lot of places and been where people are courteous, almost to a fault, and in places where people would spit on your rather than give you the time of day.

 

[Rel]

In the midwest, they will please and thank you and hold the door on their way to vote you out of your civil rights because you're 'different'. Down south they send very courteous and 'correct' emails asking for your help in enforcing their religion on public school children. Sure its possible to have both manners and tolerance, but if I have to choose one, I'll take the tolerance.

Why yes, Kahuna, it's tolerance that allows people like myself to read the sort of thing that you've written here without saying something like, "Take your rude generalizations about wide swaths of the United States and shove them where the kitty has no fur. Sideways."

That of course would not be polite. So thank heavens for my tolerance.

 

[fusangite]

Chaldfont,

I have a different reaction to your post. I think the problem is that we are watching the baby boomers coming of age. They have been an arrogant, spoilt, rude, narcisitic generation at every stage -- as teenagers, as adults and now as seniors. History's most self-centred generation makes its presence felt at every stage it passes through but they don't define that age group; we've managed to produce one or two generations since of better-disciplined, harder-working young adults, despite half of them being raised by baby boomers!

In my experience, politeness has changed form. Some forms of politeness are on the rise. Others are on the decline. We do more thanking today than we did twenty years ago, for instance.

 

[BlackSilver]

It seems to me that "PC" has been covered in this thread (post 117 & 132). Being polite isn't about being PC, its about being kind to others. No matter how you word it, it comes down to being polite.

Having some kindness towards others is what this thread is about, and how it seems to be reducing (I think Harmon referred to it as lacking) in our culture.

I think there has been enough hostility for a while around here, so please respect the words and beliefs of others.

Kahuna- if you would please reframe from being hostile or at least seeming to be hostile you might be able to get your thoughts across more clearly, and they may be better received.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Why yes, Kahuna, it's tolerance that allows people like myself to read the sort of thing that you've written here without saying something like, "Take your rude generalizations about wide swaths of the United States and shove them where the kitty has no fur. Sideways."

That of course would not be polite. So thank heavens for my tolerance.

of course generalizations that those areas are more polite are ok... only counter generalizations about the generalized drawbacks of the areas (both of which I have personal experience with) are bad.

And please take your passive agressive hostility somewhere else, a comment I will not dress up in cutsy "I could say but won't" BS.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Kahuna- if you would please reframe from being hostile or at least seeming to be hostile you might be able to get your thoughts across more clearly, and they may be better received.