Rant: WotC can't design their spells "right"

[Al'Kelhar]

Guys,

When I started this rant, it was really about what I perceived as really poor spell design coming out of WotC in non-core products. I didn't really look deeper into the motives of WotC behind those poor designs. Some have chosen to paint them as a deliberate attempt by WotC to fix problems with SR or arcane spellcasters generally, or to "re-balance" the spell schools as presented in the SRD. If that's the case, then I pity WotC. I happen to regulate an industry where we expect a level of maturity, otherwise people die; we expect the industry to be forthcoming in acknowledging its errors, and then fixing them promptly. It seems to me that a "mature" and dominant industry player should have the decency to admit that it made a design error and fix it, rather than use some subterfuge to fix it but never admit the design error. However, I adhere to the maxim that "between a conspiracy and a stuff-up, always bet on the stuff-up". So I'm reckoning WotC is just stuffing up their spells with inadequate adherence to general principles of design underlying the SRD spells, and inadequate playtesting. I don't think they're trying to fix SR or arcane spellcasters. My experience is that SR is not wholly mage-defeating any more than DR is wholly fighter-defeating. My experience is that a well-played wizard or sorcerer in v.3.5 can still dominate the battlefield. What gets me is that, unless the process of "re-balancing" the spell schools is transparent, we don't see a complete picture until the re-balancing is finished and we get disasterously unbalanced schools in the meantime. The Conjuration school is now just crazy powerful, and Evocation is languishing in its shadow.

Disclaimer: I don't play an Evoker.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A party can't stop anyone from getting to the mage unless there in really tight quarters. And even then if properly motivated someone can still get to the mage if they are willing to take a couple AoO's.

A party that can´t do this against most opponents is proably not a good party.

Most the time, enemies will come from a single direction, and are ground based. It is easy to stand in their path. So, yes, they can attempt to get to the wizard, but they probably can´t charge him (you are in their way), and won´t be onto him within one round.
A good fighter will be able to trip an opponent that tries to get to the mage when the opponent takes his AOO, at least if he isn´t surprised.

Beginning at 7th level, a wizard could prepare Dimension Door to get away from any opponent (Verbal component only!), even if he is grappled.

 

[Jalkain]

A party that can´t do this against most opponents is proably not a good party.

Most the time, enemies will come from a single direction, and are ground based. It is easy to stand in their path. So, yes, they can attempt to get to the wizard, but they probably can´t charge him (you are in their way), and won´t be onto him within one round.
A good fighter will be able to trip an opponent that tries to get to the mage when the opponent takes his AOO, at least if he isn´t surprised.

Beginning at 7th level, a wizard could prepare Dimension Door to get away from any opponent (Verbal component only!), even if he is grappled.

Yes, that one has saved my wizard on numerous occasions. Other spells like Fly and Haste help you get out of the way too. Then there are spells like Wall of Force, Slow, Evard's Black Tentacles, Solid/Acid Fog, Bigby's Hand Spells... These help you control the battlefield and impede enemy progress. Then we have Shield, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Project Image, Blur, Blink, Stoneskin, Fire Shield etc which make it harder to damage you.

And heaven forbid that you might even use the occasional divination spell to get the jump on your enemies. Because to hear some of the people on this board, you'd think that the opposition have a monopoly on ambushes.

If, with this massive array of spells at your disposal, and with your party to protect you, enemies are still consistently hurting your wizard, then there is something seriously wrong. In some cases it may well be that the DM is applying the rules in such a way as to render certain tactics or spells ineffective. That happens a lot, and isn't the fault of WotC and their evil plans (yawn) to nerf 3.5 wizards. I do agree with the original point about consistency of spell design though.

Another common occurrence is that players use bad tactics, neglecting 90% of their available spell list in order to cause damage. Buffing fighters, hampering foes, scouting out the enemy... These are considered support duties, and are beneath them because they just want to out-damage the party's barbarian. Often this is justified by saying that it is part of the character's flavour. Well, that's fine, but you are losing a large part of the flexibility of the class, sacrificing defence for offence, and _making_ yourself a prime target. In effect, you are playing a sub-optimal character. So make sure you really are doing it for the flavour.

There's no rule that say even evokers have to stuff their spell slots full of damage spells. All it means is that are always going to have a few available each day. How you choose the rest is up to you. Anyone with extreme tendencies in this area will probably be better off with the warmage now anyway. And, as has been pointed out, there are some very good higher-level evocations which don't do direct damage.

What I think is particularly funny is when people say that even if your wizard is protected from physical attacks, he is still a sitting target for area-effect or instant death spells (I trust that these are not the same people who regularly pronounce Great Fortitude and Lightning Reflexes to be worthless feats). Well, where are many of those spells coming from? A wizard perchance? I suppose that _their_ wizards are somehow less vulnerable...

 

[MacMathan]

I have to agree with the original question that Conjuration is treading on Evocations territory. Cojuration already had its own niche imho.

These things vary from campaign to campaign but I really do not understand why the wizards mentioned above are allowing themselves to be so vulnerable?(No offense meant)

Against ground based opponents the mage should never be on the ground or within reach. If the are ranged fighters use invis and other concealments to make yourself hard to hit. If they do fly then use other defenses that keep you from being hit (ghostform, blink, displacment etc). For Wizards at least I find a caster with some meta feats to deal some decent damage, and that damage is at range rather than up close and in danger.

IMC Quicken and Imbue Familiar with Spell like ability has seen wizards dropping in excess of 120 pts of damge in a round on average. Ths seems in line given all of the other things they can do.

Just my 2 cuprum-

 

[Pants]

It isn't but it's a kludge to fill the void behind by Haste. Just like the Orb spells are a kludge to try to fix WoTC mistakes in 3.5. Unless WoTC fixes the fundamental problems then these kludges ultimately won't fix anything.

The only 'void' left behind by Haste was a void where wizards/sorcerers could no longer dominate entire fights with the casting of a single spell. In all honesty, I will hug that void and feed it dinner.

As for the Orb spells, I think they work better in Evocation.

 

[Sir Elton]

Then there is nothing stopping you in reclassifying them Evocation spells. And that goes for all of you.

 

[Pants]

Then there is nothing stopping you in reclassifying them Evocation spells. And that goes for all of you.

Which I will probably end up doing.

 

[Saeviomagy]

A party can't stop anyone from getting to the mage unless there in really tight quarters. And even then if properly motivated someone can still get to the mage if they are willing to take a couple AoO's.

Then your party is useless.

And from what I've seen, SM is a speed bump when I'm being generous about it. It vary easily can be campaign differences but most summons can be virtually ignored in our games. The few that are slightly dangerous can usually be dropped in an absurdly quick fashion. Which provides a purpose in that the damage is spent on the summon and not a player but cleave usually makes sure the player doesn't get away scot free. And well summoning a lower level creature just makes them that much weaker than they were before. In 3.0 I they were a bit too good with some monsters special abilities but they were spot on in damage dealing power, in 3.5 there weaker in too many ways.

Eh? In my opinion from about 5th level, summons become worthwhile. They flank, they cause damage and they soak up opponent's attacks. Once you hit 7th, they're buffing the party as well.

The key is to pick the right summon, not the one with the most damage potential.

 

[Testament]

The key is to pick the right summon, not the one with the most damage potential.

Damn skippy. Just ask a Druid some time about what a grace of unicorns can do after the fighting's finished.

 

[Aydin of Bastok]

Then your party is useless.

Or the DM's not an idiot.

I can get an attack on the PC caster in over 90% of the combats I put them in, if I wanted to run the campaign into the ground and turn the whole 'having fun' aspect of the game into an adversarial relationship all about 'winning'.

It isn't hard. It's ridiculously easy in the case of class levelled monsters, just do the same thing players do in the same situation - mobility feats or equivalent spells, ranged attacks and held actions, bull rushes, overruns, the Tumble skill, etc.

So it isn't always the case where players are to blame - sometimes having a DM with half a brain is hazardous to one's PC health.