Rap and Hip-Hop at the game table?

[Aeolius]

Most people know that video game characters are not real.

Granted, there was something cathartic about jabbing orcs in Warcraft until they screamed "STOP POKING MEEEEE!"

 

[Zoatebix]

In ten years that entire generation will be deaf, I reassure myself, and the world will be quiet once more.

Hey man, that's not cool! One of my favorite English professors is hard of hearing because he had a band in high-school that opened for Cream!

in the same place as video games with guns - in the trash.

That's also not cool! Mega Man 2 (1988) is probably one of the top 5 video games that don't have anything to do with Shigeru Miyamoto, and the main character has a gun for a hand!

Sometimes violence belongs in the trash, and sometimes Dr Wiley makes 8 robot masters that terrorize the population, and you need to replace your left hand with the mega-buster.

Violence has a place in socially conscious music.

Would the Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" work if the lyrics didn't try to contrast the suburban world the listener is familiar with to a place where one works with a gun in one's back for one bowl of rice a day?

When the Lifesavas are critiquing the same violent rap everyone here is against, would their irony work if their parody gansta wasn't "So thug, he gets shot everytime he goes on stage"?

Ug! Okay, this post isn't that good... why do I try to write these right before class?

Peace! (and I'm actually wearing tie-dye today...)

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

Violence has a place in socially conscious music.

Would the Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" work if the lyrics didn't try to contrast the suburban world the listener is familiar with to a place where one works with a gun in one's back for one bowl of rice a day?

Yes. There is a lot of violence in every genre of music. I can name you violent country, classic rock, soft rock, showtunes and punk. The difference between this and rap, is that in rap it is not presented as intelligent social commentary (ala a lot of the DK's). It's presented as "Yeah I'm a thug, I'm cool" and an entire lifestyle has been created around it. How many times have you seen kids act, talk and dress like thug rappers? I see it all the time. And it saddens me, because these kids are so deluded that they think being like Jay-Z is the way to get ahead in life. And maybe if they are the one in a zillion picked to be a gangsta rapper with a contract it is the way to get ahead. But for the rest of them, they lose touch with reality and aspire to be a thug for the rest of their lives.

I can honestly say I can't say the same about any other genre of music , where the lyrics are violent. Maybe 3 or 4 kids who were REALLY into punk who still look kinda goofy (IMO) but they can at least form complete sentences when they speak and carry on conversations about world events. Sorry, but I have never met a kid who was into gangsta rap (and I mean REALLY into it...not the people who just listen for background music) who struck me as being on his/her way to a great adult life.

If it were just the lyrics, it would be fine. But it's not. It's the whole attitude behind it. You can't compare Holiday in Cambodia to a current top 40 50 Cent song. Both have violent lyrics, but the purpose was much different.

 

[Zoatebix]

Hey! No fair pointing out where I made unfair comparisons!

I can be just as not fair! Go me!

Violence has a place in socially conscious music.

I've never said gangsta rap was socially conscious. I was arguing against blanket statements.

I've been advocating rather uplifting hip-hop on this thread - I know AMG isn't great, but they describe Blackalicious as "Literate, Organic, Laid-Back/Mellow, Playful, Freewheeling, Reflective, Smooth" and hey, Blazing Arrow peaked at 49 on Billboard 200. Not quite top 40, but there are a lot more people listening to 'Underground' rap than one would think - DJ Shadow and Jurassic 5 (and a lot more that I haven't heard or haven't researched) have recent almost-big releases.

More later, must sleep now! Trust me, I actually have an argument I'm getting to. I don't know whether it's fair or not.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

Hey! No fair pointing out where I made unfair comparisons!

I can be just as not fair! Go me! I've never said gangsta rap was socially conscious. I was arguing against blanket statements.

I've been advocating rather uplifting hip-hop on this thread - I know AMG isn't great, but they describe Blackalicious as "Literate, Organic, Laid-Back/Mellow, Playful, Freewheeling, Reflective, Smooth" and hey, Blazing Arrow peaked at 49 on Billboard 200. Not quite top 40, but there are a lot more people listening to 'Underground' rap than one would think - DJ Shadow and Jurassic 5 (and a lot more that I haven't heard or haven't researched) have recent almost-big releases.

More later, must sleep now! Trust me, I actually have an argument I'm getting to. I don't know whether it's fair or not.

I don't think we have an argument I think J5 is great. I'm also a big fan of De La Soul....remember them? I like rap and hip hop, I just don't like the top 40 gangsta stuff.

As for whether or not it has a place at the gaming table, I agree, it depends on your game style.

 

[Zoatebix]

Why does 'argument' have to be conceptualized in agnostic and warlike metaphor in Western culture ('attacking' and 'defending' 'positions' and 'points'...)? That's it - I'm putting my foot down. We need to invent a new form of discourse and make up a word for it.

Anyways - I'm not sure whether we have an argument either, but was trying to build up steam to play Devil's Advocate...

I don't really recall any genre (aside from perhaps early rock and roll) having such an impact on the behavior of a generation. Many genres did impact, but I can't think of one that had such a frightening deep impact in a negative way....

Sorry, but I have never met a kid who was into gangsta rap (and I mean REALLY into it...not the people who just listen for background music) who struck me as being on his/her way to a great adult life.

People do all kinds of stupid stuff that screw up their way to great adult life. The Judas Priest suicide pact kids, the EverQuest addicts, LARP addicts, D&D satanists and suicides... their problems originate not in their music or hobbies, but in something more deeply rooted.

In England in the 18th Century, and into the 19th, the reading of novels was seen as a great danger to society's morals - "Purify your reading if you would guard your virtue!" And hey, if you know little tidbits like 'etc.' is a euphemism for female genitalia, some of that 18th C stuff approaches the raciness of the 'sex on tv' people campaign against today.

These days, the education establishment (as presented by the news media) seems ecstatic if a kid will pick up a novel of his own volition. Writers don't strive to be poet laureate anymore, they strive to write the Great American Novel. The 18th century cry against novels has shifted to our current popular forms. I don't know where we're going, but some perspective keeps me... I don't know what it keeps me. Skeptical, maybe?

I'm not sure whether the above is bull or insight. Anywho, I've only heard a few tracks by De La Soul - time to listen to a whole album on one of my friend's computers. Yay for Itunes and Universities!

I changed my mind - no hip-hop at the game table.

april fools

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

Anyways - I'm not sure whether we have an argument either, but was trying to build up steam to play Devil's Advocate...People do all kinds of stupid stuff that screw up their way to great adult life. The Judas Priest suicide pact kids, the EverQuest addicts, LARP addicts, D&D satanists and suicides... their problems originate not in their music or hobbies, but in something more deeply rooted.

In England in the 18th Century, and into the 19th, the reading of novels was seen as a great danger to society's morals - "Purify your reading if you would guard your virtue!" And hey, if you know little tidbits like 'etc.' is a euphemism for female genitalia, some of that 18th C stuff approaches the raciness of the 'sex on tv' people campaign against today.

These days, the education establishment (as presented by the news media) seems ecstatic if a kid will pick up a novel of his own volition. Writers don't strive to be poet laureate anymore, they strive to write the Great American Novel. The 18th century cry against novels has shifted to our current popular forms. I don't know where we're going, but some perspective keeps me... I don't know what it keeps me. Skeptical, maybe?

I'm not sure whether the above is bull or insight. Anywho, I've only heard a few tracks by De La Soul - time to listen to a whole album on one of my friend's computers. Yay for Itunes and Universities!

I changed my mind - no hip-hop at the game table.

april fools

The difference is, those things never affected such a large portion of society. Maybe it's different for me, because I am close to the inner city and I maybe have a warped view, but I see an awful lot of kids acting and dressing "hip hop" and it's not a small portion of the population.

 

[Mirth]

Jurassic 5 tonight at the Orange Peel in Asheville, NC! I can't wait! Although Cut Chemist isn't with them for this tour, my friend saw them in Virginia recently and said that Nu-Mark steps up to the plate and goes WAAAAY beyond the call of duty. I guess I'll only miss the customary DJ Battle...

 

[Zoatebix]

*Bump!*

I really loved this thread, man!

 

[Prince of Happiness]

*Bump!*

I really loved this thread, man!

This is an awesome thread.

It drives me up the wall to see people make hyperbolic statements (rap/hip hop glorifies violence) about "rap" when it comes pretty clear that they haven't heard The Jurassic 5, The Roots, ?uestlove, etc. I'm more into the electro side of the old school, and new electro now.

I couldn't really see playing it for D&D, so much of it seems so rooted, if not lyrically, but then by the context to a modern setting.

Hot Hot Heat? I've seen them with Radio 4, and open for Wire. Both times I wanted to stab the lead singer.