Rapid Shot and haste

Brown Jenkin

First Post
I should know better. Does Rapid Shot stack with the haste spell or the speed weapon ability (speed/haste I know don't stack)?

From the 3.5 SRD:

RAPID SHOT [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point Blank Shot.
Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a -2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.
Special: A fighter may select Rapid Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats.
A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the archery combat style is treated as having Rapid Shot, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.


Haste
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)
A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. Any condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.
All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject's normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for increased speed.
Multiple haste effects don't stack. Haste dispels and counters slow.
Material Component: A shaving of licorice root.


Speed: When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
 

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IMO, I'd rule that the feat does not count as a "haste effect" when determining stacking, but is more like Flurry of Blows or the Two weapon Fighting feat, where the additional attack(s) come at a penalty. In all three cases, I'd rule that the extra attack from Haste must also suffer the same penalty.

In fact, I ruled this way just recently, when the party went up against an evil Ranger 6/Rogue 5 with Boots of Speed, as part of a major encounter in the plot...
 

Sure, why not?

It's not a haste or speed effect in any way.

The extra attack is made with the same modifers to BAB as the first attack.
 
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Artoomis said:
Sure, why not?

It's not a haste or speed effect in any way.

The extra attack is made with the same modifers to BAB as the first attack.

I'm with Artoomis on this one. What basically happens is you use yout extra attack, then you use your full attack to fire off the arrows you would normally fire off in any given full attack sequence (ie iterative attacks + rapid shot attack, imposing a penalty on all the attacks made during the full round attacks).

Slim
 

Since I'm the GM of the game ratboy's in, I'll chime in.

Rapid Fire and Haste/Speed do stack, but as already commented, there is a -2 to all attacks that round, including the extra attack from haste/speed. Trying to create an arrow machinegun?:)
 
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Black Omega said:
Since I'm the GM of the game ratboy's in, I'll chime in.

Rapid Fire and Haste/Speed do stack, but as already commented, there is a -2 to all attacks that round, including the extra attack from haste/speed. Trying to create an arrow machinegun?:)

What happens if the archer is hasted, but doesn't use rapid shot? He gets to fire 2 arrows, both at max BAB, no?

Slim
 

Magic Slim said:
What happens if the archer is hasted, but doesn't use rapid shot? He gets to fire 2 arrows, both at max BAB, no?

Yup, assuming he takes the Full Attack Action.

Plus any iteratives.

-Hyp.
 

Hypersmurf said:
Yup, assuming he takes the Full Attack Action.

Plus any iteratives.

-Hyp.

But if he uses rapid shot on top of that, ALL his attacks are at -2?

Slim

Edit: I see 2 conflicting informations:
each attack you make in that round takes a –2 penalty
vs
(the extra one and the normal ones)

The extra haste attack isn't necessarily a normal attack, it's a special extra attack.

Bleh. Slim.
 
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Black Omega said:
Since I'm the GM of the game ratboy's in, I'll chime in.

Rapid Fire and Haste/Speed do stack, but as already commented, there is a -2 to all attacks that round, including the extra attack from haste/speed. Trying to create an arrow machinegun?:)

I'm still working on the archer and I noticed some things that would have to be redone since I missed a prereq. I know you are the final world, but while I am figuring this out I was hoping to get some input to see if I should even bring it up. By the way your the one who mentioned that we didn't have a archer specialist. :p

Ratboy
 
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