Rappan Athuk Reloaded at DTRPG.COM

[JustKim]

I have one word for you, Clark: Piracy.

Now I have one hundred and eleven other words for you: By giving some people the PDF for free and making it unfairly expensive for everyone else, you give people incentive to share the PDF with others (dewatermarked). Eventually an uncouth, smelly pirate will end up with the PDF and your attempt to keep it low key will totally flop.

This has already happened with Game of Thrones and WotC's PDFs- type "Game of Thrones PDF" into Google and it's the third result. It will probably happen inside of two months- one month if people are good and mad and looking for trouble. Necromancer Games is going to get a black eye over the price and it's going to be for naught.

 

[saturnin55]

Now By giving some people the PDF for free and making it unfairly expensive for everyone else, you give people incentive to share the PDF with others (dewatermarked).

All necro pdf sold via dtrpg are watermarked. And I guess the free RARE pdf will be distributed via dtrpg.com (with a coupon)

 

[Barak]

I'm not sure I quite understand Clark's argument.

Well, no, I'm pretty sure I understand it, I'm just not sure I agree.

When a product is limited release, to me it's the actual product. And maybe I'm behind the curve, but I view the PDF version not only as a different product, but as a different -type- of product.

Part of the appeal of a limited product, in my view, is from a "collector's" standpoint. It's a bit of a feather in one's cap to have it, knowing only 999 (in this case) other people have it. To some, speculation also plays a part, as the product can easily go up in value in a couple years. PDFs.. Not so much. Heck, the number of PDFs sold aren't even limited. So there's no easy way to know how many will be sold or what not. Sure, Necromancer could release numbers, but taht isn't really the same.

Resale value? Ah. Fughetaboutit.

So I really don't see buyers of the print product getting upset over a cheaper PDF. But that's just me. I wonder if anyone who actually bought the print version (except that guy who got it for 22$, of course. ) and that'd be upset over a cheaper PDF would care to chime in?

Of course, in the end, it doesn't matter. It's their product, and they are of course free to do what they want. *shrug*

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Uhh, did you read Clark's post? it sounded pretty....inflexible...to me.

Yeah, well, Clark and Bill will discuss it. Clark is a great guy and might not be as inflexible as you think.

Guess I will have to wait 4 years for the "Going out of business sale"

Er, how would this drop the price of the .pdf? We are a print publisher, whether or not we "Go out of business" is entirely dependant on our print sales. The .pdfs don't do anything for us. The main reason Bill and Clark originally started having .pdfs of the print products is to allow overseas customers to get our products for less than a 250% mark-up, or in the case of some US servicemen, get the product at all. We are providing .pdfs as an additional service, not as a route to support the business. We don't want to upset retailers and distributors, many of whom aren't all that sure what they think of the electronic stuff, carrying our print products.

We do appreciate the kind thoughts though.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

So I really don't see buyers of the print product getting upset over a cheaper PDF. But that's just me. I wonder if anyone who actually bought the print version (except that guy who got it for 22$, of course. ) and that'd be upset over a cheaper PDF would care to chime in?

I wouldn't care either. As you say, the .pdf isn't going to reduce any possible resale value of the collectible version. The numbered version is just fine! Maybe I'll make it to the con one of these days when Bill & Clark are there and get it signed... Can't do that with a .pdf!

 

[Particle_Man]

Er, how would this drop the price of the .pdf? We are a print publisher, whether or not we "Go out of business" is entirely dependant on our print sales. The .pdfs don't do anything for us. The main reason Bill and Clark originally started having .pdfs of the print products is to allow overseas customers to get our products for less than a 250% mark-up, or in the case of some US servicemen, get the product at all. We are providing .pdfs as an additional service, not as a route to support the business. We don't want to upset retailers and distributors, many of whom aren't all that sure what they think of the electronic stuff, carrying our print products.

You have the causal order wrong:

First, you go out of business, about 4 years from now.

Second, you need money, badly, to pay your creditors and keep your houses and cars.

Third, you realize you could make more money if you sold off your pdfs at cheaper prices, because more people will buy them then, and because they cost nothing to produce, since they are already made.

Fourth, you lower the prices of the pdf "Rappan Athuk: Reloaded". Since you are going out of business anyhow, your argument (which I don't actually agree with, but let's leave that aside) that it will hurt your business to do so by diluting the value of the print versions, which might hurt your business, becomes inoperative.

Fifth, I buy Rappan Athuk: Reloaded, the pdf, at a cheaper price than it is currently selling for.

As for the first step, that is just my prediction about what will happen to most small publishers. Some will do well, but most will not. You guys may beat the odds, but I think I will wait four years and see.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I'm not sure I quite understand Clark's argument.

Well, no, I'm pretty sure I understand it, I'm just not sure I agree.

When a product is limited release, to me it's the actual product. And maybe I'm behind the curve, but I view the PDF version not only as a different product, but as a different -type- of product.

Part of the appeal of a limited product, in my view, is from a "collector's" standpoint. It's a bit of a feather in one's cap to have it, knowing only 999 (in this case) other people have it. To some, speculation also plays a part, as the product can easily go up in value in a couple years. PDFs.. Not so much. Heck, the number of PDFs sold aren't even limited. So there's no easy way to know how many will be sold or what not. Sure, Necromancer could release numbers, but taht isn't really the same.

Resale value? Ah. Fughetaboutit.

So I really don't see buyers of the print product getting upset over a cheaper PDF. But that's just me. I wonder if anyone who actually bought the print version (except that guy who got it for 22$, of course. ) and that'd be upset over a cheaper PDF would care to chime in?

Of course, in the end, it doesn't matter. It's their product, and they are of course free to do what they want. *shrug*

Well put and pretty much exactly how I feel about it.

I have a physical copy of RAR coming my way that I ordered, but I want a copy of the PDF as well. There are a few NG products that I have hardcopies and PDF's of (Crucible of Freya, Tomb of Abysthor, etc...) the hard copies I read and the PDF's I use for my actual game when I use those materials. I print out only the parts I need and mark up and change them for my game as I need them. This is especially useful when converting stuff from 3.0 to 3.5 or with maps.

I may wind up purchasing the PDF for RAR if I decide to actually run it, but at that price it's going to have to come at a time when there's nothing else to buy in my RPG budget.

 

[Pinotage]

Well, I won't say I'm not disappointed. I rarely, if ever, buy print products, and by far the majority of my gaming material is pdf. I would never have bought RAR as a print copy, but I would as a pdf. Right now it's too expensive. I don't really understand the argument. Oh, well.

Pinotage

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I'm pretty sure it was 100 copies to Gen Con, 10 comps, 90 sold. What is in distribution is what is left.

Case

Cool. I was just thinking that 100 isnt alot, but in terms of how many were actually printed it really is. I wonder how long it'll take for all of them to be sold from the stores and various retailers. I know my LGS still has copies of Wilderlands still sitting on the shelf from last year and I know Amazon is selling it for $45.00 so they still have some. The print run of Wilderlands was something like 2500 copies or so I hear so I guess 1500 is a big difference...

 

[JustKim]

All necro pdf sold via dtrpg are watermarked. And I guess the free RARE pdf will be distributed via dtrpg.com (with a coupon)

The watermark will be removed, that's what dewatermarking is.