Rate Kill Bill Volume 2

[Wrath of the Swarm]

You see, that's your problem. You think you know what quality is. You're like those people who think that comic books are necessarily shallow and trite because the medium is inherently inferior, ignoring what can be accomplished and how deeply imaginative people can be touched by them.

Have you even considered the possibility that if everything you see in the films is stupid and juvenile, the problem is in you?

 

[WizarDru]

See, that's the thing that you obviously don't understand. I know the genre. I understand the genre. I "get" the genre. I just don't particularly care for the genre. A "nearly perfection distillation" of a flawed concept will never, ever compare to a nearly perfect distillation of a worthy concept.

That sounds rather odd to me. If you don't care for the genre, how can you describe yourself as 'getting it'? It's like saying you know about rice krispie treats, you 'get' them, but you don't particularly care for them because the very idea of mixing marshmallows and rice krispies with butter and other ingredients is inherently flawed.

If you don't like the genre, I don't see how you can really determine much about it internally. Why is the genre itself a 'flawed concept'? I could easily say the same thing about period romances, farcical comedies or greek plays. That doesn't necessarily say anything other than that you didn't like it.

Also, I think part of the disconnect may be that you define this in a narrow genre of 'revenge genre' film, when I think it was, if anything, more appropriatedly placed in the martial arts genre (although I don't think it pigeonholes that well). This isn't a remake of "Mr. Majestyk" (whose poster hangs in Bud's trailer) but more of Return of the Master Killer and 36th Chamber of Shaolin.

 

[Kai Lord]

That sounds rather odd to me. If you don't care for the genre, how can you describe yourself as 'getting it'?

And I find it odd that you find it odd. Seriously, it isn't a complicated concept. Understanding /= liking.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

And you don't seem to be doing either in this case.

 

[hong]

"And what, pray tell, is the five-point-palm exploding head technique?"

"Quite simply the deadliest blow in all of martial arts. He hits you at five pressure points around the body, and lets you go. But after you have taken five steps, your head explodes."

 

[Darrin Drader]

Late to the party, but I finally saw the second part.

I give the film a higher score than Kai Lord, but I agree with many of the points he made. Keep in mind that I do not define myself as a Christian, either. In my opinion, in the end, it isn't the bride that was redeemed, but Bill. I mean lets face it, all those people had to die because those two didn't work as a couple. You can accuse either one of them of being horrible murderers, but how is the way Bill dealt with her any worse than the way she dealt with him after she woke up from the coma? This is what happens when assassins have marital spats! It really takes domestic violence to a whole new level.

So the reason I think Bill redeems himself is because first he calls off Elle from killing the bride while she was in a coma. Then, he tries to warn his brother in hopes that he'll find a way to stay out of the way, he raises their daughter while saying nothing negative about her, and finally he doesn't try to hide from her murderous rampage.

I keep wondering why she was out to kill them. I can understand the profound effect that her pregnancy must have had on her and why that would cause her to go ballistic, but by her own admission, she didn't think things would work out with the guy in the small town. I really doubt she ever truly cared for him at all. When she learned that her daughter was still alive, what was her motivation for killing Bill at that point? It really could have ended there and ther might have been redemtion of a sort on both sides. But that would have been anti-clamactic. While I ended up liking the movies more than I thought I would, the ending just made me sad.

 

[WizarDru]

And I find it odd that you find it odd. Seriously, it isn't a complicated concept. Understanding /= liking.

Understanding, no, "getting it", yes. If you don't like rice krispy treats at all, stating that you think Mom's rice krispy treats tends to lose value as an analysis, when you don't think that any rice krispy treat could ever real ben palatable. If you don't particularly enjoy asian martial arts cinema, and think the very basis of the genre is flawed, then of course you don't like Kill Bill on that basis. It just seems odd that you would even bother to go see it, especially if you didn't like the previous installment.

So the reason I think Bill redeems himself is because first he calls off Elle from killing the bride while she was in a coma. Then, he tries to warn his brother in hopes that he'll find a way to stay out of the way, he raises their daughter while saying nothing negative about her, and finally he doesn't try to hide from her murderous rampage.

Bill being a complex character doesn't equal redeemed. If Bill was so darned redeemed, why did he let so many people die? Remember, Bill knew right after O-ren and the Crazy 88s that Beatrix was on her way to lay down the smack. Vernita certainly didn't get the memo on that one. Sure, he warned his brother...but he could have given some protection, or could have met the bride at some point previous to her rampage. Hanzo clearly hated Bill enough to violate his blood oath, something that Bill found suprising, but wasn't shocked by.

Bill was transformed by her death and then betrayl, and the results of his own actions. He felt remorse, and he felt guilt. But he was still, by his own admission, "a murderous bastard". He hadn't stopped being an assassin, and had no intentions to do so.

I would say that they transformed each other. One of the things I really enjoyed about KB v2 was that Bill was redefined from the first half. He becomes one of the most sympathetic characters, after a fashion. But let's be clear, he's a bastard...and he's OK with that. Charming at it, really. But he also was OK with gunning down his daughter's mother with little provocation, mere feet away from where she was sleeping. Bill didn't try to talk the bride out of killing him...he just wanted closure.

If anything, I'd say that Bill wanted her to kill him, so he could allow her to transform into the mother that their daughter needed...someone he could not be.

 

[Thanee]

Just a lil side question, what's that silly kung fu strike called in english?

Five point pressure heart explosion technique?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

What I really liked in the movie was the many different director styles incorporated (like the Sergio Leone character close ups).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kai Lord]

Understanding, no, "getting it", yes.

You obviously don't know what getting it means. And for that you must feel the wrath of my five point palm. It simply means to understand the story, what it was trying to accomplish, and what the storyteller was trying to say. It doesn't mean you like it. You can "get" a joke without finding it funny.

See Teflon Billy's post where he confesses to not understanding The Passion or what Gibson was trying to get across with the movie and how that was his basis for comparison in suggesting I didn't "get" Kill Bill. But as I said, I did get it.

If you don't particularly enjoy asian martial arts cinema, and think the very basis of the genre is flawed, then of course you don't like Kill Bill on that basis.

There's much more to KB than "Asian martial arts cinema" which ironically suggests you were the one who didn't get it. I've seen many kung fu movies that didn't have revenge as their basis. I label the movie as Tarantino does, a revenge exploitation flick that borrows liberally from Asian cinema, but also Italian and American as well. So did Quentin not get his own movie? I think not.

It just seems odd that you would even bother to go see it, especially if you didn't like the previous installment.

Then you obviously aren't getting any of my posts either, because I literally spelled out in black and white why I went to see KB2 in spite of Tarantino's previous work. Go back and read it.