Rate Spider-Man 2 [No Spoilers]

[barsoomcore]

I'm curious as to what you thought Sam did specifically in Spidey 2 that he didn't in Spidey 1, as far as delivering on the "promise."

A number of things. First off, Spiderman 1 only intermittently feels like a Sam Raimi picture. Most of the time, it feels flat, like a movie anyone could have directed. Only Sam could have made Spidey 2.

Secondly, there's a couple of bad performances in Spidey 1 (Willem Defoe most outrageously) that make the film unsatisfying to watch. One of the great things about The Evil Dead is how honest Bruce's performance is. He doesn't really know what he's doing, but he's nailing every moment regardless. In this film (Spiderman 2), everyone is firing on all cylinders (except for that one Doc Ock moment, but we'll let that slide).

Thirdly, the heart of the story is so open and out on the sleeve of this picture. It teeters on the verge of sentimentality -- which is right where a Sam Raimi picture ought to be -- and is always saved by a dark, angry sense of humour that posits an unfriendly, unmerciful world in which bad things happen for no reason. That's my Sam. The first film didn't achieve that -- largely due to a lackluster script that loses its energy in the second half and never really hits Peter with the sort of emotional wallops that this film does.

Spoiler

Once Uncle Ben dies, the film really falls apart.

That's all I can think of right now. I wouldn't watch Spiderman 1 again (though I've seen it three times already), but I'll be buying 2 as soon as the DVD comes out.

 

[Vigilance]

Uhhhh- I dont consider it lazy in the slightest when a movie based on a comic is TRUE to that comic. I consider it intelligent.

That's like slamming Romeo and Juliet for not surprising you with the ending

And as for the ultimate line... I happen to like them (along with many many others- every ultimate title is in the top ten of ALL comics every month- this means that ALL comic fans like them as well as they frequently comprise 3-6 of the top ten titles including Marvel, Dc, Top Cow, and all the other smaller companies)... and they are pretty darn different from the originals.

Tastes can differ, and it doesnt bother me that you dont like them, however its a mistake to assume that your specific tastes translate into universal quality when the Ultimate line is the most successful comic line in the last 20 years.

Chuck

So instead of doing something even a little original, they were lazy and just rewrote what has been done in the comics.

I did think the movie kicked ass action wise, but the was nothing original or interesting about the story.

And please don't mention Marvel's Ultimate comics, they are proof that Marvel lacks in original ideas.

 

[Richards]

Originally posted by Vigilance, about Marvel's "Ultimate" line of comics:

This means that ALL comic fans like them as well as they frequently comprise 3-6 of the top ten titles including Marvel, DC, Top Cow, and all the other smaller companies.

You, sir, are quite incorrect. I have been collecting comics since 1978 or thereabouts. I am a die-hard comic fan, and the vast majority of my collection is made up of Marvel titles.

I do not like the "Ultimate" books.

Therefore, not ALL comic fans like them, as you stated above. I can't argue against their apparent success, but just because they sell well does not mean that they have universal appeal. By your logic, everybody likes the Backstreet Boys and Brittney Spears because their music CDs are (or were) top-sellers.

Johnathan

 

[Arnwyn]

Quite pleased with it - a 9.

The cameos sealed the deal for me - excellent!

 

[nHammer]

Originally posted by Vigilance, about Marvel's "Ultimate" line of comics:You, sir, are quite incorrect. I have been collecting comics since 1978 or thereabouts. I am a die-hard comic fan, and the vast majority of my collection is made up of Marvel titles.

I do not like the "Ultimate" books.

Therefore, not ALL comic fans like them, as you stated above. I can't argue against their apparent success, but just because they sell well does not mean that they have universal appeal. By your logic, everybody likes the Backstreet Boys and Brittney Spears because their music CDs are (or were) top-sellers.

Johnathan

I've been a comic fan for 20 years now, and I don't like them. So his statement is false. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to continue the discussion because it has nothing to do with the thread (or the movie).

 

[Vigilance]

*sigh*

Yeah I really meant *all* literally. Sorry to make the semantically deficient go into brain lock when they saw that ONE word of my entire post.

To restate the INTENTION of my post (and to pick up on your bad analogy)- I think if a band, ANY band, even one you do not care for that has EVERY SINGLE ONE of its songs enter the top 10 on the Billboard charts (as every Ultimate title has done) then I would say you must acknolwedge it has value to the majority of the listening public.

Similarly a comic line that consistently accounts for 30-50% of the top 10 of the Diamond best sellers list BY ITSELF must be acknowledged as not just being a "tired old retread" ad nHammer referred to it whether YOU SPECIFICALLY like/read/enjoy it or not.

Chuck

Originally posted by Vigilance, about Marvel's "Ultimate" line of comics:You, sir, are quite incorrect. I have been collecting comics since 1978 or thereabouts. I am a die-hard comic fan, and the vast majority of my collection is made up of Marvel titles.

I do not like the "Ultimate" books.

Therefore, not ALL comic fans like them, as you stated above. I can't argue against their apparent success, but just because they sell well does not mean that they have universal appeal. By your logic, everybody likes the Backstreet Boys and Brittney Spears because their music CDs are (or were) top-sellers.

Johnathan

 

[nHammer]

*sigh*

Yeah I really meant *all* literally. Sorry to make the semantically deficient go into brain lock when they saw that ONE word of my entire post.

To restate the INTENTION of my post (and to pick up on your bad analogy)- I think if a band, ANY band, even one you do not care for that has EVERY SINGLE ONE of its songs enter the top 10 on the Billboard charts (as every Ultimate title has done) then I would say you must acknolwedge it has value to the majority of the listening public.

Similarly a comic line that consistently accounts for 30-50% of the top 10 of the Diamond best sellers list BY ITSELF must be acknowledged as not just being a "tired old retread" ad nHammer referred to it whether YOU SPECIFICALLY like/read/enjoy it or not.

Chuck

Why should how well the books sell have anything to do with what I think of them?

I don't care how well they sell. I've read lots of issues of Ultimate Spiderman/X-men/Avengers(Ultimates). I found they just redo stories that have been done. Marvel really needs to do some new stories and make a few new characters. And why the hell start a New Universe with old characters? If you want to do something different with the characters use their books that are already being made.

 

[Richards]

As for me, I must just be "semantically deficient." I understood your meaning perfectly well, and I agree 100% that the "Ultimate" line is quite obviously successful. But I drew the line at letting you get away with stating that ALL comic fans like the "Ultimate" line. (You should be more, uh, vigilant about posting absolutes like that!)

Likewise, I don't think my music analogy was bad. You're arguing that if a band has all of its songs on the top of the charts, I have to acknowledge that it has value to the majority of the listening public. If you look, I'm not arguing that they wouldn't have such a value - my whole point with the band analogy is, not ALL of the listening public would necessarily like them, just like not ALL comic fans like the "Ultimate" line, as you originally stated (in error).

My problem with the "Ultimate" comics is that I think they're "fixing a problem" that doesn't exist - they're restarting the Marvel Universe so people won't be intimidated by the decades of backstory. So what happens a couple of years down the road, when the "Ultimate" line has years of backstory? Start over again? I had no trouble understanding what was going on in the Marvel Universe when I started collecting comics in 1978 - granted, there was less of a backstory then than there is now, but I still don't see most people refusing to buy a current Spider-Man comic today because there are decades of Spider-Man comics that came out before that one.

Furthermore, I really disliked what they did to a lot of my favorite characters in the "Ultimate" line. I hate Peter Parker's new "grunge look" and his parted-down-the-middle hair; I hate the fact that Wolverine is now a teenager with an attitude (and a stupid-looking goatee); I really despise the new, younger Fantastic Four (and don't get me started with "Victor Van Damme"); I could go on, but I won't. Suffice to say I really hate the "Ultimate" line.

On the plus side, I was overjoyed that those who wanted to "rebuild" the Marvel Universe were given their own line to monkey around with, so they would leave the original Marvel Universe - the one I'd been reading about since 1978 - alone. Had they just scrapped the old universe for the "Ultimate" line, that would have been it for me as a (Marvel) comic book collector.

But what was this thread about originally, anyway? Oh yeah -- rate Spider-Man 2. I gave it a "9," on the assumption that a "10" would be just about perfection. There were a few things I found troublesome in the movie (most if not all of which have already been discussed in this thread), enough to knock it down from a "10" but no lower. All in all, I think this is my favorite superhero movie to date.

Johnathan

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I gave it an 8.

Great movie but a little slow at times. About equal to the first flick which means it's a great movie.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Furthermore, I really disliked what they did to a lot of my favorite characters in the "Ultimate" line. I hate Peter Parker's new "grunge look" and his parted-down-the-middle hair; I hate the fact that Wolverine is now a teenager with an attitude (and a stupid-looking goatee); I really despise the new, younger Fantastic Four (and don't get me started with "Victor Van Damme"); I could go on, but I won't. Suffice to say I really hate the "Ultimate" line.

Johnathan

Please tell me Victor Van Dammne isn't Doc Doom or anything like that. When you mention that name so close to the FF I got worried.