D&D 5E Ravenloft Previews of Dementlieu, Lamordia, and Har'Akir

WotC has been sprinkling previews of individual Ravenloft domains to various websites -- including Dementlieu, Lamordia, and Har'Akir. Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is only a couple of weeks away, coming out on May 18th!

Dementlieu​

• Forbes takes a look Dementlieu, which has inspirations like Cinderella, The Masque of the Red Death, and Dark City. "Dementlieu is one of over 30 domains of dread detailed in the book. It’s a sharp contrast to Barovia’s dark forest and looming Gothic castle on a hill. Instead it’s covered in a glamorous sheen of fine clothes and fancy parties. Everyone is dying to be invited to the Grand Masquerade held by Duchess Saidra d’Honaire every week on her private island. And, in many cases, killed if they are discovered at the ball if they’re not supposed to be there."
• Syfy Wire looks at Lamordia, inspired by Frankenstein. "Many of the Domains of Dread are inspired by some horror tale or piece of creepy folklore, and Lamordia definitely has its roots in Frankenstein. But while the Domain is inspired by that classic horror story, its elements are then shot through the lens of D&D adventures and explored to dozens of horrific extremes. Mordenheim's land isn't just about resurrection gone awry, it's also the Domain for all different types of science gone wrong, bizarre experiments, body horror weirdness, and grim tales of society versus a frigid land. Just as there's more to Frankenstein than a scientist who abandoned his child, there's more to Lamordia than stitches and semi-dead flesh."
• Polygon has Har'Akir, an Egyptian-themed domain. "Why is there a Domain that is a desert that is riddled with these ancient, inexplicable haunted monuments and ruined pyramids? How does a Domain like that exist? How does it make sense? To an extent it doesn’t, and it’s going to be the players that come and explore that, who are some of the only people that realize that the entirety of the domain is, to an extent, gaslighting them."

Ankhetop, darklord of Har'Akir

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[Micah Sweet]

Shouldn’t telling a story be the job of each playgroup? I mean, it’s great that you liked the meta-plot, but there are a lot of folks who didn’t. Settings often set up dramatic questions with big stakes so the players can answer them in their own campaigns. Coming up with canonical resolutions inherently invalidates the stories being told at the table by real play groups, who then have to decide if they want to ignore the meta-plot, or ret-con their own campaigns.

Let’s not be over-dramatic here. There’s no Ministry of Truth changing the text in the old books. Nobody is changing history or pretending the past doesn’t exist. They’re just moving on from the past. 5e Ravenloft is not 2e Ravenloft, neither of which are 3e Ravenloft. You can use the bits of each you like, and weave your own story that connects them if you like, and other groups can choose different bits that they like. That’s a positive thing.

And yet, the MCU has a completely different continuity than the comics. Different mediums demand different approaches. What works well for continuity in a comic book series is not the same as what works well for a film franchise based on the same characters, which is not the same as what works well for an RPG based on them.

I should note that the MCU exists in parallel to the comics, not as a replacement, and that all versions of Ravenloft we're discussing use the same medium. Still, you're right. The company can do what they want; it's their IP. There's plenty of mechanically updated material for the Ravenloft I like out there anyway.

 

[Demetrios1453]

What tombs are there in Storm King's Thunder? Dragon Heist has no tombs at all that I can think of. Dungeon of the Mad Mage isn't a tomb. Saltmarsh adventures don't feature tombs, although they have a few underground lairs.

I'd say that "plunder a tomb" isn't really a feature of any of the WotC AP's.

One whole chapter in SKT has the party plunder Uthgardt tombs in order to retrieve artifacts in order to gain access the giant temple oracle.

But as for changes in Ravenloft - well, the Dark Powers have, and quite often use, the ability to change the domains as they please. I mean, it's the equivalent to the cliche "a wizard did it", but in this case it's justified...

 

[Hussar]

It has been a while since I have seen the movie, but this really strikes me as a mischaracterization of her. I thought she was great in this movie number one. But two, she was smart in that film from what I recall (and was a librarian if I remember). But she was clumsy and a little absent-minded, which isn't ditzy in my view but more like the absent minded professor type. The franchise wasn't the same without her. I think one of the great things about Rachel Weisz is she can play a character like that in an action movie, but then play someone like Hypatia in the movie Agora.

I don't want to get deep into this discussion again, as we had a very similar one. But I think overall, most of your critiques are extremely uncharitable.

Him, female character falls in love with the male lead after being forcibly sexually assaulted - kissed without any permission - check.
Female character is in need of being rescued from the male villain who also "loves" her - check
Female character repeatedly needs saving from danger by male lead - check.
Female character's first action in the movie is to find big, strong male lead to "help" her - check.

On and on and on. Uncharitable? Good grief. And, I note, you nicely cherry pick one line out of the criticisms I made, and pretend that this justifies everything. Hardly a damning response.

 

[Hussar]

One whole chapter in SKT has the party plunder Uthgardt tombs in order to retrieve artifacts in order to gain access the giant temple oracle.

But as for changes in Ravenloft - well, the Dark Powers have, and quite often use, the ability to change the domains as they please. I mean, it's the equivalent to the cliche "a wizard did it", but in this case it's justified...

I'll admit, I played this and not DM'd, but, wasn't that part a dragon's lair?

 

[TheSword]

And, @TheSword, I'd also point out a major element that you seem to have missed. While you are absolutely right that tomb robbing is a huge problem, there is a significant difference. No one paints Egyptian tomb robbers as heroes, saving the damsel, protecting the world from the heathen beliefs of primitive peoples.

Think about it this way. If Brenden Fraser's character had been played by an Egyptian actor and given and Egyptian name, what would be the odds that that character would remain the protagonist? Or, would that character then be changed to the villain and Arnold Vosloo would be the hero?

Well the ditzy (but thoroughly brave, intelligent and independent) damsel did work for an Egyptian at an Egyptian museum.

I thought Brendan et al were displayed as thorough scoundrels actually. The heroism came from defeating an ancient evil, not because they pocketed a handful of gems. The film portrayed a very just end for people who were only interested in plundering. Benni, and of course Omid Djallili’s character. Incidentally no one was Egyptian Religion in the film. Past or present.

There were two Egyptian characters... the stalwart defender and the Egyptologist (Evie’s boss) were both great characters.

I’m not a person who gets hung up on who acts as who in films. It’s a fools errand that stifles creativity. Casting should be fair, but I don’t believe only Egyptians should be able to play an Egyptian character. As a gay man I find the idea that only gay men should play gay roles is equally ludicrous. Did Vosloo do a good job is the only question I need answering. Incidentally did he have a spray tan, I thought he was a South African body builder and presumably already pretty tanned?

Sometimes I think you can find problems where you want to find problems.

 

[Bedrockgames]

On and on and on. Uncharitable? Good grief. And, I note, you nicely cherry pick one line out of the criticisms I made, and pretend that this justifies everything. Hardly a damning response.

I didn't cherry pick. I selected one that seemed particularly egregious

Yes, uncharitable. You are doing what so many people do these days: Least charitable possible reading of a piece of media. Doesn't mean things are perfect or not products of their time. But I think you and many others have arrived at the point where everything starts to look like a nail to you.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Well the ditzy (but thoroughly brave, intelligent and independent) damsel did work for an Egyptian at an Egyptian museum.

She also knew a crazy amount about ancient egyptian (seem to remember she could read hieroglyphics and all sorts of things). Ditzy is not how I would describe this character.

 

[Micah Sweet]

:: Adjusts nerd glasses :: Acshullally

Marvel has reset its continuity a couple times; its just that they never outright invalidate any previous story. (Though The do something contradict, hence the infamous No Prize) For example, Secret Wars (2015) ended every Marvel continuity and smashed them into one. It looks similar to the classic 616 continuity, but several interlopers (such as Miles Morales from the Ultimate universe) came through and became permanently part of the universe with little attempt to explain them into past events. This is how we get characters like MM Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, or Gwenpool all running around in the same universe together.

Further, Marvel has a sliding timescale that says thier continuity is never more than 10 years from the current year; which has resulted in many characters getting adjusted origins (Punisher has fought in several wars; Iron Man was kidnapped from several battlefronts), several "tricky" origins (Magneto's WW2 origin gets more and more difficult to explain) and a lot of condensed history (Spider-Man has been killed, cloned, replaced, dated two girls, married one and "unmarried", and watch Aunt May die several times, all in the course of 10 years). So, by this point, Marvel Continuity is less "this happened" and more "if its releveant, it happened. If it isn't, it didn't".

To bring it back to RPGs, 5e's Forgotten Realms is Marvel; it's not outright saying the Spellplague didn't happen, but its more-or-less ignoring it unless it's something it finds relevant (IE the coming of dragonborn) with every major NPC from the 1300's surviving somehow to the 1400's with a lot of hand-waving involved. Whereas 5e Ravenloft IS much closer to DC's "New 52" reboot, where some things still count (Batman's entire history, including 4 different Robins, fit in 10 years) some things don't (Superman was the launch-point of the story so his marriage, death, and rebirth were all gone) and some things happened differently, but still happened (the formation of the Teen Titans, which couldn't happen in continuity due to the timeframe, still was discussed). The difference of course, is that for WotC it was easier to restore things taken away from Faerun during 4e than it was to remove things from Ravenloft, which is why its simpler to allow Faerun to handwave Mirt the Moneylender's return than it is explain how Victor Mordenheim became Viktra.

Ultimately, the fate of any continuity long enough to survive multiple decades is that cannon must be expunged at corrected. Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, DC, Marvel, Transformers, you name the property I'll find you the apocrypha items that no longer fit it its chronology. Sometimes it's easier to start fresh, sometimes it's easier to ignore it and move on. No one-size-fits-all solution exists.

I am aware of the exceptions inherant in the Marvel analogy I used, but for me personally what they've done is "close enough" given the realities of the situation. Others may have a differing opinion; all I can go by is what I like and how far current product differs from that point. Lately those differences have been growing; it is clear the target audience for D&D has moved on from me. You never think it'll happen to you until it does.

 

[Charlaquin]

You are doing what so many people do these days: Least charitable possible reading of a piece of media. Doesn't mean things are perfect or not products of their time. But I think you and many others have arrived at the point where everything starts to look like a nail to you.

Don’t mistake critical for uncharitable. The intent of critical analysis is to understand messages that exist in media, with or without authorial intent. A critical but charitable reading might say something like “here are some problematic implications of this piece of media; they are more likely the result of unconscious biases than active malice,” where an uncharitable critical analysis might say something like “this creator is bigoted because they made this work with these problematic elements.”

 

[TheSword]

Him, female character falls in love with the male lead after being forcibly sexually assaulted - kissed without any permission - check.
Female character is in need of being rescued from the male villain who also "loves" her - check
Female character repeatedly needs saving from danger by male lead - check.
Female character's first action in the movie is to find big, strong male lead to "help" her - check.

On and on and on. Uncharitable? Good grief. And, I note, you nicely cherry pick one line out of the criticisms I made, and pretend that this justifies everything. Hardly a damning response.

Definitely uncharitable.

• It isn’t for you watching it to claim she was sexual assaulted. That is her right alone.
• Imhotep thought she was a reincarnation and wanted his actual love to possess her, not quite the same thing.
• Everybody in that film needs saving from danger... including Brendan a time or two.
• She was looking for a guide because he’d been to Hamunaptra. If he’d have looked like Benni she would have taken him at the same.