D&D 5E RAW: Using Purify Food and Drink to cure a party member?

[Tonguez]

What about cheese?

Cheese isnt alive though, its the cast off remains of microbes in milk, but once its matured to cheese those microbes are no longer active

Equally oysters and carrots while they may be ‘fresh’ have been removed from their habitat and are in the process of dying (slowly), though they can be revived by returning them to their habitat.

So really food is entirely dependent on the process that the consumer uses to make sure it is dead and that includes oysters and carrots and yogurt since once they are bitten in half or hit your stomach acid they are most certainly in the process of being dead and digested

So it seems like the category of "food" is dependent on the biology and perceptions of the person casting the spell. Which could have all kinds of ramifications, especially in a fantasy game that allows all manner of fantastical creatures with fantastical diets to be characters. For example, what does a plasmoid categorize as food? For a Dhampir, food could be dreams. Or what if the character casting the spell would not recognize the target as food - maybe a Thri-kreen has never encountered the strange food eaten by dwarfs and sees it as totally inedible - could they still cast the spell on it? Also, the "alive" argument is not so easily defined, either. For example, is an egg alive? What about a strawberry, straight off the vine?

 

[Clint_L]

Cheese isnt alive though, its the cast off remains of microbes in milk, but once its matured to cheese those microbes are no longer active

Equally oysters and carrots while they may be ‘fresh’ have been removed from their habitat and are in the process of dying (slowly), though they can be revived by returning them to their habitat.

So really food is entirely dependent on the process that the consumer uses to make sure it is dead and that includes oysters and carrots and yogurt since once they are bitten in half or hit your stomach acid they are most certainly in the process of being dead and digested

So food has to be in the process of being digested before the spell works? Because it is patently untrue that most food is dead before being eaten. I mean, we are currently being eaten. Each of us is currently food.

All you guys are doing is further convincing me that using a normal definition of food, the spell is busted according to RAW.

 

[Tonguez]

So food has to be in the process of being digested before the spell works? Because it is patently untrue that most food is dead before being eaten. I mean, we are currently being eaten. Each of us is currently food.

All you guys are doing is further convincing me that using a normal definition of food, the spell is busted according to RAW.

well in the long run the whole of life is just a way for the universe to cycle through particles,

but no I’m suggesting that Food should be in the process of actively being made dead before it is considered Food.
The Cow in the paddock is Animal but chopping off a cows rump quarters will kill it
A lobster in the sea is animal but boiling a lobster will kill it
A carrotin the ground is a vegetable but grating a carrot will kill it
pouring lemon juice on an oyster will kill it
and squeezing the juice from a lemon will kill it

food is carnage

 

[Clint_L]

well in the long run the whole of life is just a way for the universe to cycle through particles,

but no I’m suggesting that Food should be in the process of actively being made dead before it is considered Food.
The Cow in the paddock is Animal but chopping off a cows rump quarters will kill it
A lobster in the sea is animal but boiling a lobster will kill it
A carrotin the ground is a vegetable but grating a carrot will kill it
pouring lemon juice on an oyster will kill it
and squeezing the juice from a lemon will kill it

food is carnage

But everyone is looking at this from the perspective of a human person, and with their own cultural preferences.

Some results that come up when you google "food definitions":

• any nutritious substance that people or animals eat or drink or that plants absorb in order to maintain life and growth
• something that people and animals eat, or plants absorb, to keep them alive
• Food is matter (building materials) that contains energy living things can use to live and grow
• Food is any substance consumed by an organism for nutritional support

The problem is that food can be anything, often is, and this is exacerbated by the presence of so many distinct sentient species in D&D. Why should purify food and drink only work on things that seem like "normal" food and drink to modern North Americans, when there are playable races that subsist on dreams, or get nourishment through osmosis? Plants basically eat air - so does that also go for sentient plantlike species, such as Myconids? Could they cast purify food and drink on their air? If not, why not? It is literally what nourishes them.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I've always figured that the rules text cover how it works in the game for it's intended use case. It's not a complete writeup of the mago-physical properties and behavior of the spell.

So if a player casts a spell and then points to an edge-case interpretation of the spell text to try to make it do something it's clearly not mean to do, I just grin and have something else happen instead, often nothing at all.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Human geophagia (eating earth) is possible in the real life.

Geophagia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Healer magic should have been designed to avoid magical iatrogenesis, but this could be possible by fault of the wrong spell, working as an overdose

Iatrogenesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Other option can be to use the spell to create a variant potion, and this would need a long-rest time, but without side effects. Here the potion crafter should know enough about medicine.

Or the spell can work on a living creature to heal, but a Con check is necessary. If it fails then the patient suffer a level of exhaustion until at least a short rest. Or two Con checks, if one fails, it would need a short rest to recover the exhaustion level, but if it fails twice, then a long rest would be necessary.

Or the patient fails a Con check, and then this suffers a point of fire damage and other point of cold damage because the spell works as a magical version of pasteurization and (sterelicer) cold plasma

Nonthermal plasma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lanefan]

Would you allow a non-yuan-ti character to use it to cure, say, a steer that had been bitten by a rattlesnake?

Yes, but it would take a series of steps:

1. Kill the cow.
2. Cast Purify Food and Water.
3. Revive the cow, which is now no longer poisoned.

A simple Neutralize Poison on the cow is probably easier.

 

[Lanefan]

So food has to be in the process of being digested before the spell works? Because it is patently untrue that most food is dead before being eaten. I mean, we are currently being eaten. Each of us is currently food.

And each of us is (mostly) water, thus I don't even want to start on the ramifications of casting Purify Water on someone...

All you guys are doing is further convincing me that using a normal definition of food, the spell is busted according to RAW.

Yeah, this all comes under "what if"s that the spell designers just didn't anticipate.

 

[pemerton]

Spell effects are not statements of physical law. They're ordinary language descriptions of paradigmatic magical effects, often with a clear game play logic in mind. Purify food and drink has been a part of most editions since the game's inception.

In 5e it says "All nonmagical food and drink within a 5-foot-radius sphere centered on a point of your choice within range is purified and rendered free of poison and disease."

In 3E it says "This spell makes spoiled, rotten, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated food and water pure and suitable for eating and drinking. This spell does not prevent subsequent natural decay or spoilage. Unholy water and similar food and drink of significance is spoiled by purify food and drink, but the spell has no effect on creatures of any type nor upon magic potions."

In AD&D it says "When cast, the spell will make spoiled, rotten, poisonous or otherwise contaminated food and/or water pure and suitable for eating and/or drinking. Up to 1 cubic foot of food and/or drink can be thus made suitable for consumption. . . . Unholy water is spoiled by purify water."

In the original game, it says "This spell will make spoiled or poisoned food and water usable. The quantity subject to a single spell is approximately that which would serve a dozen people."

Clearly it doesn't save a person from poisoning just because someone is interested in eating them.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

But everyone is looking at this from the perspective of a human person, and with their own cultural preferences.

Some results that come up when you google "food definitions":

• any nutritious substance that people or animals eat or drink or that plants absorb in order to maintain life and growth
• something that people and animals eat, or plants absorb, to keep them alive
• Food is matter (building materials) that contains energy living things can use to live and grow
• Food is any substance consumed by an organism for nutritional support

The problem is that food can be anything, often is, and this is exacerbated by the presence of so many distinct sentient species in D&D. Why should purify food and drink only work on things that seem like "normal" food and drink to modern North Americans, when there are playable races that subsist on dreams, or get nourishment through osmosis? Plants basically eat air - so does that also go for sentient plantlike species, such as Myconids? Could they cast purify food and drink on their air? If not, why not? It is literally what nourishes them.

I find this to be very helpful-

Source: Existential Comics. Author: Corey Mohler.

The definition of "food" is not what the Yuan-Ti believes it to be, but what the player believes it to be- the rules are written for the player, not the character. So, since players don't believe other player characters, while alive, are "food," then since language is use, it follows that Purify Food and Water does not work to cure poison within other player characters.

(You could also do a more advanced reasoning that the more specific rule covers this, and apply canons of construction that would mean that Purify Food and Water would not, but this should suffice. Plus, Wittgenstein!)