Ray of Frost and Cloud of Daggers; Red Headed Stepchildren of Wizard At-Wills?

[zerotkatama]

... The only power that moves foes around. PERIOD. (just the battlefield control aspect is good but if you think about pushing monsters over cliffs or into hazards? It's un-freaking-believably good. ) - YOUR ENCOUNTERS WILL NOT DO THIS. YOUR DAILIES WILL NOT DO THIS.

Thunderlance. Spectral Ram.

 

[Argyuile]

It was stated to be true in the Penny Arcade/PvP Podcast, however, I've tried to find any reference to this in the rules, and I'm convinced that the DM made a mistake.

I thought MM could be used for OA's also but then I re-read the OA rules and it states pretty specifically that you use a melee basic attack for OA's and MM counts as a ranged basic attack.

Also if you could use a ranged attack for an OA you could run into a situation where your OA provokes an OA from the target that just provoked your OA. (He moves away thus provoking your OA, you use a range attack which provokes an OA, from him he uses his crossbow for his OA thus provoking an OA from you) Ahh my head hurts.

In any case I read over those rules and every reference to Opportunity Action's (Opportunity Attack is a type of Opportunity Action) but I couldn't find any way to use a ranged basic attack as an Opportunity Attack

 

[Mezzer]

Also if you could use a ranged attack for an OA you could run into a situation where your OA provokes an OA from the target that just provoked your OA. (He moves away thus provoking your OA, you use a range attack which provokes an OA, from him he uses his crossbow for his OA thus provoking an OA from you) Ahh my head hurts.

Well, you can't make an OA on your own turn, so that would negate him hitting you back for hitting him, but it would still allow everyone else next to you, to smack you upside the head. Thankfully, ranged OAs don't exist, so this isn't a problem. Oh, and for the record, you only get one OA per combatant, per round.

 

[Jack Colby]

I had a player using Ray of Frost for her wizard and she was kicking ass with it. This was vs. goblins first, and then skeletons. The wizard seemed more effective than the more traditional fighting classes at taking them down.

 

[Saitou]

This.

A few feats and items and a party can horribly abuse Cold-based powers.

Having an At-Will chance of planting the Killer Cold Combo is, even without the slow, -awesome-. Just make sure everyone has a cold-based thrown weapon on hand. The wizard included, if you have a warlord in the party.

Is that what we're calling it? Killer Cold Combo? Sounds appropiate.

 

[Alkiera]

Magic Missle not being useful for OAs would be why the Battlemage gets that lvl 11 power to wrap his hand in energy to hit someone with as an OA.

Arcane Riposte:
When creature provokes an OA from you, make an OA with one of your hands (Dex vs. AC). You deal 1d8 + Int mod damage of (cold, fire, force, or lightning) with that attack.

Speaking of Battlemage, Forceful Retort also pushes and knocks the opponent prone, as an encounter spell.

 

[Scalding]

Arcane Riposte:
When creature provokes an OA from you, make an OA with one of your hands (Dex vs. AC).

Unfortunately, flat Dex (no proficiency bonus) vs. AC is very unlikely to hit, probably even worse at higher levels. Despite the Wizard description stating that Dex is useful for Wizards, it really doesn't seem like a good attribute for them. Sure, Arcane Riposte does good damage, but if you never hit, it doesn't matter.

 

[Graf]

Thunderlance. Spectral Ram.

I started off by saying "this is only about 1st level wizards" for a reason.
Read -> then post.
It works better that way .

 

[NMcCoy]

Another benefit I just thought of that Cloud of Daggers has over Magic Missile: it ignores cover and concealment. And is great against swarms. (Does a swarm take +5 from the start-of-turn damage too?)

 

[Graf]

...On a miss. On a hit, it's 1d6+int+wis, the most damaging at-will possible for a wizard with at least a 14 wis.

I see what you're trying to say. It's still just a point or two of damage.
It's not significant unless you're dealing with minions. And if you're dealing with minions one by one? As I said before it's either an easy fight and you're killing time, or you should be doing something else.

For that extra damage you've got to have a wis of 14 and even then it's a 0.5 more than mm. With -half- the range.

Unless you've got some sort of weirdness where you've got a wizard with a wis 20 it's by far the worst wizard power.
(hmm... 20 wis + h-e battle cleric + cloud of daggers? 5 damage would be more likely to act as a deterrent.)

Er, no it doesn't. Not unless you push them off a cliff and they make their save, which is awfully situational.

You sir (or madam) are correct.
Thank you for taking the time to correct me.