Re-doing Cross-Class Skills

[Jürgen Hubert]

Cross-Class skills are limited in two ways: Their maximum rank is half that of cross-class skills, and two skill points need to be put into the skil to increase it by one rank.

This is done for niche protection. In this way, each class has its skill that it is good in, and doesn't encroach on the "territory" of the others. In this way, it is unlikely that the fighter of the group will be the chief diplomat of the group, or the rogue the expert on the fine points of theology.

However, I think this is just a bit too restrictive. This all but prevents characters from developing side skills in which they might not be first rate, but in which they are at the very least decent. Why shouldn't a fighter be able to be halfway decent at Sense Motive, especially since that skill can also be important in combat? Or why shouldn't any other character dabble in some purely acedemic knowledge skills?

Therefore I would suggest keeping the maximum ranks for cross-class skills, but making them cost the same number of skill points as regular skills. This way, the niches of the classes remain protected when it comes to skills, but it does allow for some more diversity among characters. With the double cost, characters will be hard pressed to even catch up to other party members who only have high ability scores linked to the relevant skills, but without this restriction, they can at least be somewhat credible in these skills.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Joshua Randall]

It's not RAW, but it would make a great house rule.

Seriously, I think this is a fine idea.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I like it.

I tend to use it for any D20 campaign I GM... IME it tends to make for more slightly more rounded characters.

Not really found a downside that I can think of. Potentials include: Players getting easy access to their favorite skills, slightly 'cheaper' to get into some prestige classes. Neither of these bother me.

Will also tend to allow switching/changing of class skills if it meshes with the characters background.


One a related side issue - I'd like to increase the number of skill points some classes get to play with - fighters, clerics and sorcerors in particular. I've not managed to find a way to do this to my satisfaction...

 

[Dave Turner]

Great idea. If D&D is to move beyond its limitations, it has to take these kinds of steps. Niche protection is a millstone around the game's neck. It is a class system, so I suppose that some niche protection is inevitable. But it should be minimized, like this house rule suggests. I will incorporate it into my own games.

 

[Herzog]

I like it.

I am of the opinion that skills are an excellent way to distinguish your character from others that have taken the same class.

I had been thinking of doing away with cross-class skills altogether, but this might be a nice in-between.

consider it joinked!

Herzog

 

[Nadaka]

There is the able learner feat that grants an identical bonus.

 

[delericho]

To be honest, I think I prefer the other house rule: where the limit is removed, but the costs stay the same. That way, a Fighter can be as good as a Rogue at Tumble, but he has to really work at it.

That said, I also think I prefer the elimination of class skills in favour of the skill group rules from Iron Heroes.

 

[scranford]

Conan has a unique approach I have adapted for all my d20 games. Class skill points must be used on class skills, but any bonus skill points from intelligence can be used for any skills.

 

[Mercule]

One a related side issue - I'd like to increase the number of skill points some classes get to play with - fighters, clerics and sorcerors in particular. I've not managed to find a way to do this to my satisfaction...

Add two skill points to each class per level (x4 at 1st). I've been using that for a couple of years and found it to be a great rule w/o being unbalanced. On the flip side, I also actually require PCs to take levels in Knowledge skills if they plan to know something.

 

[smootrk]

I just commented earlier specifically to fighters, but the general idea can be developed for any class.

I have said it in other threads, but I do not think that the fighter needs more feats or feat equivalent abilities thrown at him, although improved feat choices, especially at the higher levels is surely needed (and through PHB2 very appreciated).

The fighter needs stuff to help them develop a 'role' or background more effectively. I play around with granting bonus skill points on the 'odd' levels that are granted to very narrow sets of skills based on the character's background or general concept. It is a very organic process to determine which skills to grant (and with the direct cooperation of the player). Four points is the general rule.

For instance:
A Knightly character (not the class) might get bonus skill points that can be applied to Knowledge Nobility, Riding, and Knowledge History (military aspect).

A Mongul type character might get the same for Survival, Knowledge Geography, and Riding.

A thug street type character might get Knowledge Local, Gather Info, or another 'roguish' skill based on the character concept as developed jointly with the player.

A lot of flexibility here, and helps the player develop the role/concept without yet another basic combat bonus slapped on the character .