Re-examining Sure Strike and Careful Attack

[Nahat Anoj]

he was talking about making sure you hit with a weapon so that you can use the daily power in the magic item

So he was. Thanks for correcting me. Sorry I completely failed to read your post, RyvenCedrylle.

 

[Hambot]

I always let my PC's know if a monster is almost dead <=10 hp or so. This makes these powers really good because just hitting to finish off the monster is more important than the extra damage, which is irrelevant when the monster is below 0. It's kind of "extra bloodied" info that I give out, as I feel it is a bit more realistic that heros would try to finish off the troll that starts to stagger but not quite fall over.

This has made these powers perfectly usefull in my game with no other combos required. And I'm sure I'm not the only DM who includes this sort of info in their combat descriptions. If you only care about "DPR", what sort of fantasy story are you telling?

 

[Mad Hamish]

I always let my PC's know if a monster is almost dead <=10 hp or so. This makes these powers really good because just hitting to finish off the monster is more important than the extra damage, which is irrelevant when the monster is below 0. It's kind of "extra bloodied" info that I give out, as I feel it is a bit more realistic that heros would try to finish off the troll that starts to stagger but not quite fall over.

Twin strike is (as has been shown multiple times) more likely to hit a monster unless you need an unmodified 19-21 to hit. So the ranger ability to hit at +2 is still less useful than it to make sure of finishing off a monster.

_Maybe_ it'd make sense for the fighter in that particular case but you only have 2 at wills for a non-human and taking one which you'll only ever want to use when you're looking to finish a nearly dead monster off is a complete waste.

This has made these powers perfectly usefull in my game with no other combos required.

No it hasn't, at least not for the ranger ability.
It might have made people think it was useful and try to use it but that's not the same thing.

Nor does it do enough for a fighter to make it an attractive pick IMO (although I have to admit that I don't really recall what the other fighter at wills are)

Certainly I'd take the one that does damage on a miss and cleave ahead of it as a great weapon fighter and probably Tide of Iron and Cleave ahead of it as a sword and board.

And I'm sure I'm not the only DM who includes this sort of info in their combat descriptions. If you only care about "DPR", what sort of fantasy story are you telling?

It doesn't matter what descriptions you give a ranger is more likely to hit an enemy with twin strike than careful strike unless you need a raw 19-21 to hit it.

Nor does a corner case give you enough reason to pick it as a fighter. Nor is there anything that requires using Careful Strike or Sure Strike in order to be telling a fantasy story.

and, for what it's worth, I suspect that members of The Black Company, the Bridgeburners or those on the Chain of Dogs would be looking for the best way to win fights they're in quickly.

Of course you might you want to argue that Cook and Erikson aren't telling fantasy stories.

 

[Branduil]

Careful Strike really shouldn't exist. It's an optimization trap and the designers claimed they wanted to get rid of those.

Sure Strike is still useful because of the Fighter's OA abilities and Heavy Blade Opportunity. Of course that means you should never take it until you're in the Paragon Tier and you're a fighter that uses a heavy blade.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Careful Strike really shouldn't exist. It's an optimization trap and the designers claimed they wanted to get rid of those.

Sure Strike is still useful because of the Fighter's OA abilities and Heavy Blade Opportunity. Of course that means you should never take it until you're in the Paragon Tier and you're a fighter that uses a heavy blade.

But even if you consider OAs and HBO you're probably looking at a glaive wielder with WIS 15+ or maybe a Pit Fighter with WIS 15+ so they both have +2 to hit on OAs right out of the box. And Fighters have Dual Strike too, which could be used on an OA in this case as well which wins hands down against Sure Strike.

With really high static bonuses Sure Strike gets better than MBA, Cleave, Crushing Surge, and Footwork Lure, but only dpr wise.

 

[Ravellion]

Careful Attack and Sure Strike are both at-wills, not dailies. You can't use the +2 from those at-will powers on your daily attacks.

He said daily ITEM powers. Not daily attacks.