Reach Weapon and Hold the Line

[Felnar]

Is this right?
With the feat you "You may make an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten." On my diagram below, A is using a longspear with the Hold the Line feat, and the X's are his threatened squares. If B charges C, does A get an AoO when B enters the first X, when B leaves the first X, and another when B enters the X adjacent to C? So three AoOs in total? Because B left A's threatened area, then entered it again?
But, if A was using spiked chain, it would only be two AoOs because B wouldn't leave/re-enter the threatened area?

 B  
XXXXX
X   X
X A X
X   X
XXXXX
 C

Side question: if you ready a spear (not a reach weapon) to receive a charge, with what attack could do double damage? IE. How else other than using a reach weapon to provoke a movement AoO, can you make an attack for double damage?
Is readying to receive the same as to readying an action to attack when someone becomes adjacent?

wow that was a lot of "?" marks

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, because basically there are two kinds of AoOs - those from movement and everything else.

Where do you get that from?

Core rules, the only movement AoO is when you leave a square...

See Crawling. Crawling provokes an AoO from any opponent who threatens you at any point during your crawl.

If you crawl five feet up to an opponent as a move action, stand as a free action with a DC35 Tumble check, then walk away, you provoke three AoOs from an opponent with Combat Reflexes.

1. Crawling, when the opponent threatens you at any point during your crawl. An AoO for movement in the Core Rules that is not provoked by leaving a threatened square.
2. Standing from prone.
3. Leaving a threatened square.

The crawling AoO is in the core rules, and is not covered by the roll-up ruling. Since this is an AoO provoked by moving into a threatened square, is this not more similar to an AoO provoked by moving into a threatened square while charging, than the AoO provoked by leaving a threatened square?

If we have two AoOs for movement in the Core Rules, one of which includes moving into a threatened square and one of which does not, should a non-core AoO for movement into a threatened square not be compared to the one which does?

If we compare the Hold the Line AoO to the AoO in the Core Rules provoked by moving into a threatened square - published at the same time as the roll-up rule, since it's in the same book! - we can see than it should not be rolled up.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

To restate/clarify a key point:

Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

Moving
Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot-step and the withdraw action.

Performing a Distracting Act
Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.

Note that the ONLY move action that generates an AoO per core rules is leaving a threatened square. Thus, it is no surprise that the core rule for "one opportunity" for Combat Reflexes uses all instances of leaving a threatened square together. that's the same thing, per core rules, as saying all movement AoOs since there is only one type.

Now along comes a new feat that creates a new condition where ANOTHER movement type (entering a square while charging) generates an AoO.

This clearly expands upon "Moving" in the AoO section quoted above, as clarified even by the feat description itself when it states that normally you only get an movement AoO from leaving a threatened square.

So, is this addition to movement for AoOs also part of "one opportunity" along with the rest of movement? Well, a strong case can be made for looking at it either way, and either way is an interpretation of the rules - no clear guidance exists for how to decide this.

Edit: As for crawling:

Crawling
You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.

Crawl is not movement (sort of) - it's a move action. Not the same thing. You can't charge, jump., etc., etc., when crawling because it's not moving, it's just a move action.

Standing up is also not moving, just a move action.

You are really reaching, Hyp. I do agree that your interpration is ONE POSSIBLE one - but no more valid than mine that says only one AoO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If B charges C, does A get an AoO when B enters the first X, when B leaves the first X, and another when B enters the X adjacent to C?

It's muddied by the 'immediately before the charge attack is resolved' clause

It gets even harder if we do this:

 B  
XXXXX
X   X
X A X
X   X
XXXXX

 C

Now, 'immediately before the charge attack is resolved' occurs at a point where A cannot attack B, because B is in a square A does not threaten...

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that the ONLY move action that generates an AoO per core rules is leaving a threatened square.

See crawling, above.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

See crawling, above.

-Hyp.

Crawl is not movement (at least certainly not normal movement) - it's a move action. Not the same thing. You can't charge, jump., etc., etc., when crawling because it's not moving, it's just a move action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Crawl is not movement ...

Either you lump all movement together or you don't, Artoomis.

So, let me get this point straight. Charging into an area you threaten is more like "Moving out of a threatened square" than crawling out of a threatened square. No, wait, in fact, crawling is not even movement, instead "it's just a move action." So, you must not be crawling anywhere then. I wonder if actual movement is movement or if it's just a move action, too.

Have I got that right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Crawl is not movement (at least certainly not normal movement) - it's a move action. Not the same thing. You can't charge, jump., etc., etc., when crawling because it's not moving, it's just a move action.

Charge isn't normal movement either.

You can't move less than ten feet, you can't turn corners, and it's not even a move action, it's a full round action.

That's why you can't draw a weapon as part of a charge action - it's not normal movement.

As for 'not moving'... when you crawl five feet, you start in one square and end up in another square. Isn't that the definition of moving?

Or can I crawl five feet, stand up, and then take a 5' step? If crawling is not moving, then the prohibition on taking a 5' step if I have moved actual distance in the round doesn't apply... right?

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

I give up. You guys are simply too stubborn for me. Your refusal to admit that another point of view could also be legitimate it simply too much for me.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Your refusal to admit that another point of view could also be legitimate it simply too much for me.

Whereas your refusal to consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, you're wrong is too much for me. Turn about is fair play, after all.