Ready action advice

[Paul Grogan]

I think I got this right, but now I'm not 100% sure.
3 rogues in a room hiding are aware there are intruders in their area. They wait in this room ready. They hear the party clunking around outside. They take their positions and ready their crossbows at the door.

The party are aware there are rogues around, but dont know there are any beyond the door. The door is stuck, the front character makes the strength check and pushes the door open.

I said - surprise round - they were aware - they shoot. Hits do sneak attack. Then roll initiative. Main character loses to the rogues, more sneak attacks.

My reasoning for this is on DMG p.22, but I'm not sure what to say if my players say "We assume there are bad guys in the room", so it should be both sides aware and therefore initiative is rolled as soon as the door is open.

 

[ThirdWizard]

They should roll Spot/Listen checks to detect the rogues in the room. If they fail, they are surprised. This doesn't have anything to do with readied actions, but how surprise works.

 

[Paul Grogan]

They should roll Spot/Listen checks to detect the rogues in the room. If they fail, they are surprised. This doesn't have anything to do with readied actions, but how surprise works.

Spot checks? The door was closed, so not sure how they could have done this. Listen checks, they didnt try, but the rogues heard them before they had chance to listen at the door, so it would have been a very high DC, since the rogues were keeping silent.

When I say hiding in the room, it was more a case of using cover, but as soon as the door was opened, they would have been seen.

 

[Crothian]

I'd do listen checks too. More then likely the PCs would be surprised but I let them make the roll.

 

[ThirdWizard]

You don't have to announce you are making a listen check. If anyone nearby is using Move Silently, everyone who could possibly hear it will make a Listen check because it is an opposed skill. Otherwise, you just have everyone constantly saying "And I'm listening" while they do everything.

Action
Varies. Every time you have a chance to hear something in a reactive manner (such as when someone makes a noise or you move into a new area), you can make a Listen check without using an action. Trying to hear something you failed to hear previously is a move action.

I'm not sure on the Hide thing. If they open the door and the rogues are just standing there, then it seems like the PCs who can see into the room wouldn't be surprised, but anyone else (who failed a listen check) would be surprised. That's one way to do it at least. Another way to do it would be to have the rogues hiding in the room, so that the PCs who open the door have to make Spot vs. Hide checks to determine surprise in order to keep things simple. Remember they can use concealment to Hide, so if the room is dark and then they can hide without any cover.

 

[Paul Grogan]

I'd do listen checks too. More then likely the PCs would be surprised but I let them make the roll.

Do you mean for the rogues? I did, and they easily heard the players. Did I roll for the players? No. 3 rogues in a room, already keeping quietish, one of them listening at the door, heard the party coming miles away, at which point they got into position and kept quiet. This was when the players were about 30ft away from the door. They were then outside about 2/3 rounds, shuffling around before the front character wrenched the door open.

Yes, they should have all got listen checks even though none of them said they were going to listen at the door, but the DC would have been way too high. 3 rogues in a room, keeping silent, know that the players are right outside the door. Nobody actually listening at the door, none of the party keeping at all quiet. Sounds like a pretty impossible task to me.

 

[Christian]

I think it was handled correctly, other than 'ready' actions having nothing to do with it. If the rogues detected the PCs before the door was opened, and not vice-versa, then the rogues had surprise & get an action before initiative is rolled, period.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Yes, they should have all got listen checks even though none of them said they were going to listen at the door, but the DC would have been way too high. 3 rogues in a room, keeping silent, know that the players are right outside the door. Nobody actually listening at the door, none of the party keeping at all quiet. Sounds like a pretty impossible task to me.

3 Rogues all making checks, with perhaps 4 PCs making opposed rolls against them, there's a chance that someone is going to hear a rogue. All you need is for one PC to roll high and one rogue to roll poorly. I'd say go ahead and let them try. Even if you don't think it will happen, its makes for less fun when you can't even try.

 

[nittanytbone]

Upon approaching the door, I would give the PCs a Listen check (rolled secretly, by me).

If the rogues are whispering to set up their ambush, it'd be DC 15 + 5 for the interposing door + 1 per 10' of distance +5 for "listener distracted" unless they specifically stop for a few rounds to be quiet and listen.

If the rogues are trying to be quiet, they could use their MS checks. I'd have them take 10 on the skill as they aren't rushed or threatened.

Upon opening the door, I would give the PCs a Spot check as NO action as they are entering a new area. However, the rogues are still very likely to still obtain surprise.

The spot check would get a -1 penalty for each 10 feet of distance. Furthermore, the rogues have likely had time to Take 20 on the Hide check, or at least Take 10. If some of the rogues have 100% cover or concealment, then they'd get +40 to their check (per being Invisible), but of course this would require them to spend actions getting out from behind the cover before attacking (standing up from behind the crates or whatever).

Example: A trio of level 3 rogues with 14 Dex and maxed hide/MS:

-The Listen Check is DC 31 (10 + 2 DEX + 6 ranks + 5 door + 3 for 30 feet + 5 distracted)
-The Spot Check is DC31 as well (20 + 2 DEX + 6 ranks + 3 for 30 feet)

You'd have to have a +11 check modifier (example, a level ~5 druid with maxed Spot) to even have a CHANCE of detecting these fellas.

 

[ogre]

I concur with nittanytbone, though I'd probably only have 1 rogue make a MS check, as only one is moving. The rest of the ambush could be done with hand motion. But, yeah, once the door is opened, the PCs should be given Spot checks vs Hide, though I don't believe the rogues could take 20 on Hide checks, as there is a penalty for failure. Certain could take 10 though.