Ready action advice

[Paul Grogan]

I believe this is a standard initiative situation. Two wary groups face each other in combat as soon as the door is opened.

That was one of our original ideas, as it is nice and simple. The situation where both sides become aware at the same time is judged by initiative. But, that assumes neither side was aware beforehand.

And if you do the initiative when the door was opened, the character opening the door might win initiative and then run in and hit one of the rogues. Which is completely wrong, since the rogues were totally ready, heard the party coming and have crossbows trained on the door.

 

[moritheil]

And if you do the initiative when the door was opened, the character opening the door might win initiative and then run in and hit one of the rogues. Which is completely wrong, since the rogues were totally ready, heard the party coming and have crossbows trained on the door.

Don't do initiative before the combat encounter begins.

 

[Paul Grogan]

Don't do initiative before the combat encounter begins.

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying dont roll initiative when the door is opened?

 

[moritheil]

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying dont roll initiative when the door is opened?

No, I'm really just repeating the statement I made earlier in the thread: the players should not be allowed to decide when they want to enter initiative and ready actions. As you can probably see, that way lies madness.

 

[Paul Grogan]

No, I'm really just repeating the statement I made earlier in the thread: the players should not be allowed to decide when they want to enter initiative and ready actions. As you can probably see, that way lies madness.

I take your point, and I kinda agree that the players should not be allowed to go into initiative when they want.

So when in my specific example are you saying when initiative should be rolled?

If not when the door is opened, then when?

If when the door is opened - a character can win init and rush in and hit the rogue.
If the rogues get a surprise round and they win initiative on the next round, they get 2 sneak attack opportunities.

Both of these seem wrong to me and all my players. Hence looking for a solution.

 

[moritheil]

If the rogues get a surprise round and they win initiative on the next round, they get 2 sneak attack opportunities.

Both of these seem wrong to me and all my players. Hence looking for a solution.

In this case, I would have given the players a chance to notice something (listen checks.) Since they didn't hear anything, they suffer: the rogues could potentially get 2 sneak attack opportunities. This is why rogues are scary in ambushes.

 

[MarkB]

3 Rogues all making checks, with perhaps 4 PCs making opposed rolls against them, there's a chance that someone is going to hear a rogue. All you need is for one PC to roll high and one rogue to roll poorly. I'd say go ahead and let them try. Even if you don't think it will happen, its makes for less fun when you can't even try.

Why are the rogues making Move Silently checks? By the time the PCs are close enough to hear them, the rogues aren't moving.

 

[Paul Grogan]

Why are the rogues making Move Silently checks? By the time the PCs are close enough to hear them, the rogues aren't moving.

There was a part of the thread earlier on where I was being berated for not allowing the PC's listen checks

The situation is that the rogues are in a room. There is a door. Then a corridor. About 60 feet away and round 2 corners and into another room, the PC's are having a fight. I rolled listen checks for the rogues, with the appropriate penalties, and they heard the fight. So, they got into position, leaving one of them listening at the door.

So I think that the chance of the group hearing some rogues all that way away and through a closed door whilst the PC's are in the middle of a fight is pretty slim.

By the time the PC's approach the door, the one rogue who was listening sneaks back to behind cover. At this point, the PC's should have got a listen check, but heavily modified by the distance, and the fact that the front members of the party are heavily armoured making lots of noise

 

[moritheil]

Well, Listen checks are definitely called for. After all, you can make Spot checks to notice someone who is invisible and staying perfectly still.

It seems weird to make a Hide check opposed by Listen . . . so Move Silently is what the DM falls back on.

 

[frankthedm]

Move Silently is what the DM falls back on.

Which auto succeds if the rogues are not moving. There might be epic usages of listen that can hear someone breathing quietly, but there is basicly no chance the PCs could hear those not moving.