Readying actions outside of combat?

[Skaros]

Hi all,

How would you adjucate the following situation?

The party is hanging out, watching a lone warrior with a big crossbow walk towards them.

The warrior has the crossbow cocked and ready, but really threatening them with it.

His intention seems to be to parlay with the group.

A couple of party members want to ready actions to throw particular spells at the guy as soon as he moves to shoot his crossbow.....

However, we aren't exactly in combat, and what follows could be minutes of talking before any action happens...if it happens at all.

From my understanding, you can't ready actions outside of combat, and I think that the players who are attempting to ready actions should have to wait until after their initiative comes up, once combat starts, to actually ready the actions listed above.

I also feel that since the warrior is fully aware that there is an armed and potentially hostile group in front of him, he won't be surprised, and gets to roll initiative whene veryone else does.

Sound correct?

Now a "what if".... What if the 2 party members are illusionists, and as he approaches the party they go invisible, and move off to the side.

Does that change the scenario any?

Thoughts?

-Skaros

 

[aliensex]

Correct for the first example. Both parties are definately aware, so when combat is initiated, it is just an initiative roll to see who gets to act first.

For the invisible casters example, it depends on how they are acting. If they are wanting to do a pre-emptive strike, then they get a surprise round, as everyone is unaware that they have initiated combat. If you are talking about everyone just suddenly acting, then it is the same as above, initiative.

It depends on who is acting first, and how aware everyone is. If they are talking to the warrior, and the warrior just decides to stop talking and fight, he may just get an automatic suprise round, since he has the crossbow ready and aimed, with his finger on the trigger so to speak. If the party decides to start fighting, then I would allow initiative rolls.

Its all DM adjudication based on the situation. Just visualize, and the answer will generally come to you.

 

[dcollins]

The rules are quite specific that you can't "ready" outside of combat (DMG p. 64, paragraph 4). Your first case seems like a classic Western gunfight situation: no surprise, whoever gets high initiative shoots first.

The second case, assuming the illusionists were never seen, definitely seems like a surprise situation if they decide to attack first. If they fighter did see them before turning invisible, then it's a bit of a gray area... personally I'd allow a Listen check (PH p. 120) to let him detect the attack and avoid surprise.

This an area that's fairly open to DM interpretation.

 

[melkoriii]

One this you can do is once a player calls a action that is a combat only action. Roll intitive and act as if in combat.

The ones (PC or NPC) that are not in this ready mode tehn they are flat footed.

This work well in the games I play in.

 

[Skaros]

One this you can do is once a player calls a action that is a combat only action. Roll intitive and act as if in combat.

The ones (PC or NPC) that are not in this ready mode tehn they are flat footed.

This work well in the games I play in.

From my reading of this, you would then allow the invisible gnomes to start combat without the crossbowman being aware of it, and they could just ready actions to fireball him if he makes a move every round...possiibly for a full 10 minute conversation.

I'm rather inclined to dissallow that, for this kind of situation.

I agree that the gnomes could certainly initiate combat first by throwing out a fireball with no provocation, and they would get surprise rounds due to their invisibility and the fact that their presence is unknown to the crossbowman.

However, if the gnomes tell me they go invisible, slip away, and want to ready actions to fireball the guy if he moves to shoot his crossbow, I'd say pretty much everybody on both sides is aware of the potential for immediate combat.

So, once the guy decides to make his move, I'd have everyone, including the gnomes and the crossbowman, roll initiative, and if the gnomes come out on top in initiative, they get to ready actions or attack, as desired.

However, if the crossbowman comes out on top, I consider that he was just too fast for the gnomes, or that the gnomes just failed to notice in time.

After all, how long can someone reasonably stare at someone else, ready to throw off a spell at the slightest move...pretty hard to stay that focused !

-Skaros

 

[Mercule]

I'd use Sense Motive vs. Bluff in place of the normal Spot vs. Hide to check for surprise in this case. If the crossbowman Bluffs well, he's going to get the drop for sure. Otherwise, it's whoever gets the initiative.

Basically, you still have a surprise scenario. The question may not be so much "if" as "when". Unfortunately, you can't spend all your time ready to _react_.

 

[Vaxalon]

I use the rule that if anyone takes a combat action (including readying an attack) then we roll initiative and start counting rounds. People can speak on their turn. People can ready actions. Oftentimes, you will get situations where two people both have actions readied to attack if the other one attacks. If at some point someone decides to forego their readied action (on their turn) and attack, then they trigger the readied actions.

This means that if both sides are expecting trouble, then it's disadvantageous to start the fight. That's good! It keeps people talking.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

the gnomes dropped the hadoken on his sorry ass and killed him after much fighting.

the party bard wanted to give him some cookies.

 

[the Jester]

Ah, yes, the ol' "pcs want to ready actions outside of combat" thingie.

If you allow it just once, make sure every npc they encounter from now on has a readied quickdraw/sneak attack/expert tactician combo. Readied actions outside of combat are completely totally broken.

Or just don't allow it, ever, and use the initiative system normally for things like this.

Oh, and Mr. Fighter should certainly get a listen check to hear the gnomes sneaking about and casting spells at him.

 

[Skaros]

How'd you manage to dig up this forgotten thread agrippa?

Anyway, he's right, the gnomes (invisible) approached the evil cleric rather sneakily...that is, until one of them got within his 35' radius invisibility purge

I had decided to dissallow readied actions outside of combat, even though it didn't become an issue. Perhaps there is still some remote circumstance out there where it makes sense, but I haven't come across it yet, and am not too worried about it.

-Skaros "Lookin to Hadoken some gnomes"