Real world good Vs Story good???

[GMforPowergamers]

Ok, so I have been running a Dresden game on Saturday nights in-between our 3e game. It is loosely based off the novels, and I had an interesting encounter…or so I thought. 5 necromancers have been recruited to do a ritual. Most are really bad guys… like no questions asked bad guys. But one was suppose to be different.

She is 18 years old, and two years ago she found she could talk to dead things. Being lonely and outcast as a child she made friends with the dead. She never did anything really big enough to get attention, so no one ever trained her.
Now she was approached by a supernatural entity that gave her money and limited training to do something… now she is in the area as one of those 5 necromancers.

When the PCs broke down her door, her fight or flight response was to run… she asked the spirits to protect her, and so they did. But PCs ran after and captured her. Then started turning her over to the white council to be executed. No one balked at her high crime being stealing a bed, talking to dead, and making 1 bad decision (Listening to the supernatural creature)… so we ran through the game, and after words I said I was surprised that 2 knights of the cross would not even consider saying something and I was told that was the real world…

OK so here is my disconnect. Harry Dresden, Murphy, Michael, ect… would never just let some 18 year old be killed. In the novels the idea of something like that would be hours of debate, and even if it came to it, and they had no choice… it would haunt them. But here I am told that not all good guys think that way.

I was told Angel, or Buffy would let her die, and then given the clint eastwood example of good. So obviously I and my party on Saturday do not see eye to eye, but we kept going…

So what do you all think? Should the good guy give the person the chance to redeem themselves? Should the good guy think ‘well happens’ and just be fine? Should a good aligned paladin (knight of the cross) be such a jaded veteran that this young girls death doesn’t effect him?

 

[SKyOdin]

Its probably a matter of how you presented the character to your players, though without knowing the specifics of how you described the character, what the necromancers were doing specifically, and so on, I can't say for certain. Fine details of how you present a character or situation can have a pretty big effect on how the players perceive things. If you didn't foreshadow that one of the necromancers was someone innocent who was roped into things, then it isn't really that surprising that the players didn't become sympathetic to the character.

Of course, since I wasn't there at you game sessions, I can't say anything for certain.

 

[S'mon]

I had the opposite experience - attractive young Big Bad Evil Girl sorceress (Maeve), daughter of deceased Big Bad Evil Guy (Kaladrac), plans a Necromantic ritual, intending to sacrifice a young shepherd boy (Gen) to re-animate her father as a Death Knight.

The PCs broke down the door, killed her minions, and defeated her in an epic battle - epic for 1st level, anyway! And instead of killing her they took her prisoner and returned her to Castle Royal. This made a great plot hook, and she eventually turned on the bad guys and became the key to saving the world.

In your situation, why would the authorities execute her, anyway?

 

[Starfox]

For me, throwing possibly redeemable youths in prison where they can be "educated" to be hardened criminals belongs in the real world, not heroic fantasy.

Killing people indiscriminately, even using the justice system, is what villains do.

 

[Hussar]

IME, players are far more pragmatic than story characters ever are. She's a bad guy, the penalty for being a bad guy is being turned over to the Council for execution, end of story.

I think it's fear of being screwed over by the GM that makes players do this. There is a train of thought that says that if you give the GM anything, he'll just use it to screw you over somehow. So, I see endless lines of orphan PC's, Men With No Names, no ties to anything that could be held over them, over and over again.

This could be the same sort of thing. If they don't turn her over, which they are supposed to do, then they might be worried that it's going to come around and bite them on the petoot.

 

[Herobizkit]

If they don't turn her over, which they are supposed to do, then they might be worried that it's going to come around and bite them on the petoot.

And it should, because without conflict, there is no story.

It doesn't help that a Paladin is in the mix, which, as history on these boards shows, is a Big Fat Mess when Evil is involved.

Of course, this is coming from me, who tried to redeem Lareth the Beautiful rather than chop him down "because he was evil". The DM allowed it to happen, which made it that much more awesome.

ow, just because the players hand her over to the Council, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Council will execute her. Seems to me that, at a later date, the same Council might assign her to the PC's in order to complete a quest, making for some dramatic tension at best and awkward at worst.

 

[Gilladian]

In your situation, why would the authorities execute her, anyway?

It has to do with who the authorities (the white council) are, and what they stand for. They're EXTREMELY lawful, and moderately good.

They believe that a single "weak" moment will allow greater evil. They say that a person can never be fully redeemed after doing a single evil action... or somesuch nonsense. In the novels, Harry has a LOT of problems with the White Council.

As far as the game goes, I've had PCs do very similar things to the PCs in this scenario; they allowed a minor rogue NPC to be taken off by the one very neutral PC and turned over to the thieves guild, even though they knew it meant he'd either be trained and led into evil, or he'd be killed when his chaotic nature and immaturity got him in trouble.

The good PCs in the party just didn't want to THINK it THROUGH. It was easy for them.

Maybe if the DM had MADE them attend the girl's trial, and witness/participate in her execution, it would have made a bigger impact on them. Possibly having someone ELSE argue FOR the girl (a complete stranger, even, who just took pity on her?) would show them what compassion is?

 

[Herobizkit]

... If the DM had made the girl a ten-year-old, everything may have likely changed. If it didn't, your Paladin is as dedicated as the White Council... or the player Just Doesn't Care.

 

[Hussar]

Herobizkit - fair enough. And, if you've had good experiences with DM's when you do this, then great. However, there's far too many stories out there that when you try to "redeem Lareth the Beautiful" it works for about three sessions, then, AHA GOTCHA, Lareth buggers off with half your stuff.

When you try to do anything other than the most simple, straightforward thing, it comes around on you. That tends to make players paranoid enough that they won't try anything. Even if you, as the DM, are certainly NOT going to bite them on the butt for it. There's enough antagonistic DM's out there that players are too paranoid to trust you.

 

[Mikaze]

Maybe if the DM had MADE them attend the girl's trial, and witness/participate in her execution, it would have made a bigger impact on them. Possibly having someone ELSE argue FOR the girl (a complete stranger, even, who just took pity on her?) would show them what compassion is?

THIS.

And definitely have someone pick up the ball they dropped, or at least attempt to.

Also, have just the right person pat the players on the back and commend them for what they've done.